How parishable are wing chun skills?

[ZenMindT]

I've been training WC for just over 7 years, and in that time never missed training for more than a week or two at time, and that was very few and far between.

I've had to stop training for about 6 months due to unforeseen circumstances, and I'm not sure how long before I will return. I was just wonder just how perishable wing chun skills like sensitivity and reactivity are. I've rolled w/ guys that said that hadn't trained in while and they still had skills. But is it like riding a bike, where you never really forget? I do my best by doing SNT and empty jong (don't have a jong since i live in an apartment building ) but how fast will my touch sensitivity and reflexes diminish? I'm pretty sure my forearm conditioning is shot, and I will pretty much have to start over w/that.

Who out there has had to take long sabbaticals from training, and how did it effect your WC?

Thanks

[YouKnowWho]

Old TCMA saying said, "If you don't spar/wrestle for 3 days, your arms and legs will no longer be yours." Your judgement, timing will be off. There will be a delay between your brain tells you body what to do and your body respond to it. Of course this assume that you are at your prime.

You should alway try to take advantage on using your "scrap time" for solo training such as watching TV, walk on the street, go to bathroom, ... if you do treat TCMA training as your highest priority in your life.

[anerlich]

I believe the old TCMA saying to be incorrect. You will be sharper with daily practice, but IMO you retain skills at a usable level a fair bit longer than just a few days.

If this were not the case, I'd be looking for a method where the skill level dropoff were not so precipitous.

[ZenMindT]

Old TCMA saying said, "If you don't spar/wrestle for 3 days, your arms and legs will no longer be yours." Your judgement, timing will be off. There will be a delay between your brain tells you body what to do and your body respond to it. Of course this assume that you are at your prime.

You should alway try to take advantage on using your "scrap time" for solo training such as watching TV, walk on the street, go to bathroom, ... if you do treat TCMA training as your highest priority in your life.

Thank you for your reply.Taking advantage of scrap time is exactly what I have been doing, it's about all I can do at the moment.

I know muscle memory is not entirely diminishable. The neurological pathways we develop via training are similar to memories like peoples faces or the words to a song. You can still recall a song you haven't heard in long time, but might forget a few words, or remember a persons face you haven't seen in 10 years, just not w/ great detail. So 3 days is a little crazy. And I do practice forms and shadow box, which helps reinforce my muscle memory. What I'm not sure about is how time effects tactile awareness (touch sensitivity) and my reflex responses. It's one thing to know the moves, it's another to use them at the right moment (like you said, my timing will be off)

I'm just wondering how fast the decay takes, and how long it would take to get back to par with where i was before.

[YouKnowWho]

No matter how busy that you may be, you should at least train 4 moves as N, E, S, W 4 directions daily, when you need to use it, it will come out handy.

You can also use your mind to train if physical training is not possible.

[tc101]

I believe the old TCMA saying to be incorrect. You will be sharper with daily practice, but IMO you retain skills at a usable level a fair bit longer than just a few days.

If this were not the case, I'd be looking for a method where the skill level dropoff were not so precipitous.

I think a lot of these sayings are not meant to be taken literally though some people do take them that way. I think they are meant generally and that saying is to express that martial skills will decline with lack of practice.

I think this is a complicated topic and depends on many factors like your present performance level, the length of the lay off, the art you practice, if you stay fit or not during the lay off and so on.

[Kellen Bassette]

"3 days" is used to illustrate a point. If you have practiced a good deal, say several years, and then take a long sabbatical, you don't necessarily "lose" the skill, your body still remembers "how" (like riding a bike.)

HOWEVER.....your timing and distance will be shot. In essence, you will, for the most part, retain your skills, but there will be a delay in applying them in real time. This of course, may be enough to render the skills useless. Having your timing/distance a little off is a scary and frustrating thing.

Of course, if someone never regularly sparred/grappled, they will not have developed their timing/distance anyway, so it won't matter.

Your body may easily recall how to punch/deflect/whatever, but you may find a slight lag, which in sparring/fighting will make all the difference.

[BPWT]

Agree with the above post

I was out of Wing Tsun for a couple of years, but had access to some XingYi. My XingYi teacher always said I was Wing Tsun'izing my Xingyi. Sometimes what you learn really stays with you physically, no matter how hard you train something new.

When I came back to Wing Tsun (moved to a place where I could resume training), I slipped back into the way of things very quickly.

Of course it helped that in my time away I was still training a MA - so things like distance judgement and timing were not too rusty.

[Egg fu young]

I can't speak for WC skills but I will say that I was out of Judo for about 10 years and my first class back in a new dojo was a free sparring grapple class and we did a round robin at the end of it with everyone there, I was exhausted at the end but I submitted everyone.

Now...I'd taken Karate for 2 years up until 6 months ago and although I do bag work 2 times a week. I haven’t been practicing my Kata. About a month ago I decided to incorporate it back into my workouts and realized pretty quickly that I was really rusty and it took up until about last week to get back where I was when I'd left.

[ZenMindT]

Thank you all for your replies, some of you really hit the nail on the head as to what I was asking.

SKM,
As I stated in my previous post, I do forms when I can, I do empty jong because I don’t have a jong at my home. There is a gym at my job, so a few times a week I go down on my break and get in a quick work out, I want to at least maintain something close to my fitness level. It’s not that I’m not doing anything, I am just unable to get in partner training like chis sao and sparring, so I’m not getting that external stimulus that would keep my awareness and reflexes on point.

2nd question. Does anyone have any suggestions of solo training that would keep up skills like that. I’ve read in several sources that throwing a tennis ball against a wall (close range) and catching with variations like throwing it w/ eyes closed, or throwing it behind you and turning fast to catch it is good for training reactive reflexes and hand/eye coordination. It would be awesome if there was something similar for tactile awareness, but that doesn’t seem possible.

[YouKnowWho]

Does anyone have any suggestions of solo training that would keep up skills like that.

The best solo training is the partner training without partner. A left Tan Shou, right face punch followed by a right Tan Shou, left face punch can be a good combo.

[EternalSpring]

The best solo training is the partner training without partner. A left Tan Shou, right face punch followed by a right Tan Shou, left face punch can be a good combo.

good ol' tan-da. If you're alone it's nice to train it with a heavy bag too. I recently joined a gym and I have to say that I'm loving all the cool partner training stuff I can do w/ the heavy bag.

[anerlich]

"3 days" is used to illustrate a point.

And illustrates it badly!

I think a lot of these sayings are not meant to be taken literally

I think a lot of them are best ignored when accuracy seems to be of little consequence. And many are just cloaking the bleeding obvious with a veil of undeserved profundity in a failed attempt to make the person saying them seem smarter than they actually are.

[KungFubar]

At your level of training, you will retain the neuromuscular training that you have gained for several years and then it will start trailing off. You have to train 35+ years in order to have visceral retention of the training. My question for you is what prevents you from training on your own. If you know SLT, can you do SLT twenty times a day? You can do it in a corner of your bedroom. I am always surprised when people say they are unable to train. Unless you are in the hospital or jail, it should be possible to train daily. What are your thoughts on what I am saying? All the best.
SKM

do they allow SLT in jail? or does it cause some other problems?

[Kellen Bassette]

And many are just cloaking the bleeding obvious with a veil of undeserved profundity in a failed attempt to make the person saying them seem smarter than they actually are.

You've cracked the code.