MT Clinch

[YouKnowWho]

When your opponent uses MT clinch on you, if you use "head lock", you can lock his head along with both of his arms. Since his arms will be jamed between your body and his bodies, you can disable his arms.

Have you ever try this? What's your experience on this?

http://imageshack.us/a/img407/6162/2l5e.jpg

[Sima Rong]

I'm confused by this. You don't mean after being clinched, do you?
If a MT practitioner uses this clinch well, your head is pinned in tight and they usually control your balance and can detect a lot of your movements. How would the defender do a head lock from this position?

[Kymus]

I don't think that'll work. Any MT guy trained properly is going to have full control over you once you're in that clinch. They will gladly sway you from side to side until you stop moving long enough for them to drive in their knees.

In Muay Thai, there are 2 ways we (or at least I) learned to avoid the kneeing and 2 ways to reverse or get out of a clinch:

1. Bear hug them and they can't really knee you (though they probably will attempt to elbow you in the head)
2. bring both fists out and against their stomach, with arms locked. They won't be able to effectively knee you. But you're still open up top (unless your reaction time is real good)
3. You can reverse the clinch by pushing their chin up and then snaking your arms in and applying the clinch on them (this one's harder for me to explain since it's been probably 5 - 7 years since I've done it)
4. You can break the clinch by "popping"; pull one of their elbows down and pop the other one up

I've seen videos on YouTube purporting on how to get out of a MT clinch, and I don't think most of the techniques would work. Furthermore, most of them don't seem to know how to properly do a MT clinch.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents

[Kymus]

I'm confused by this. You don't mean after being clinched, do you?
If a MT practitioner uses this clinch well, your head is pinned in tight and they usually control your balance and can detect a lot of your movements. How would the defender do a head lock from this position?

Bingo!

1234543651

[mickey]

Greetings,

I am really not into sport combatives.

Have any of you simply tried a strong forward rush? the guy can not do much if his weight is continually being shifted back to his heels.


mickey

[YouKnowWho]

Have any of you simply tried a strong forward rush? the guy can not do much if his weight is continually being shifted back to his heels.

The "forward rush" is 1 point contact. Since your opponent's legs are still free, it may not work well. If your leg can hook on your opponent's "back" leg (2 points contact), if will work better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2gLOWehvdg

[Kymus]

Greetings,

I am really not into sport combatives.

Have any of you simply tried a strong forward rush? the guy can not do much if his weight is continually being shifted back to his heels.


mickey

They'd spin you out and try to give a strong kick to the back or side of your legs as your spinning. It wouldn't work.

[mantis7]

I just tried this technique out. To do this we have to assume that we can loop the hand over while pulling out of the clinch...The reaction time of the opponent will make this an extremely low percentage move almost to the point of uselessness. As soon as you start to shift your weight to get our and swing the arm you either be jerked to either side or your head would be pulled down to stop your movement. This would only work if you are working with a compliant opponent.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Kymus, even after the spin, you can still forward rush. If you are totally exhausted to begin with, I would understand the level of control you describe. Until then, make him earn that clinch. From a life/death perspective, the clincher leaves much open to attack

mickey

[YouKnowWho]

I'm confused by this. You don't mean after being clinched, do you?
If a MT practitioner uses this clinch well, your head is pinned in tight and they usually control your balance and can detect a lot of your movements. How would the defender do a head lock from this position?

If your opponent's clinch can pin your head, you already lose by my definition. You assume your MT opponent has better clinching skill than you do. Sometime that may not be the case if you are a good wrestler.

2 of my guys had tried this in their MMA gyms. Both of them told me it worked very well. The reason is simple. It's not a good feeling to have your arms to be jamed between bodies. I assume different people may have different experience.

[mantis7]

If your opponent's clinch can pin your head, you already lose by my definition. You assume your MT opponent has better clinching skill than you do. Sometime that may not be the case if you are a good wrestler.

2 of my guys had tried this in their MMA gym. Both of them told me it worked very well. The reason is simple. It's not a good feeling to have your arms to be jamed between bodies.

The headlock won't work because of the following:

1. The clinch is situated for a quick release when countered. To apply the head lock your speed would need to exceed the speed of your opponents letting go of his clasped hands.

2. Your reach much exceed to the circumference of the opponents arms and head combined. The girth and arm strength require to hold on to such a lock would have to exceed the strength and reaction time of your opponent.

3. The clinch is a situated in such a way that when your opponent controls the neck the body will follow. If you swing your arm wide it will only take a small movement to counter a large swing by throwing off your balance enough to disrupt the attempt.

4. Pinning the opponents arms to the side of his head creates a spatial gap between the opponents bodies allowing the other opponent to easily twist out of the headlock.

Applying a clinch is a simple task and is easily applied in a stand up grappling situation. If you think someone has already lost because they have become the recipient of a clinch then you need to go train at a MT gym and learn the actual strategy behind it. Even the best MT guy and wrestlers can easily fall victim to this hold but it is not a losing moment. It should be an expected moment because it is easily applied and not completely avoidable.

If your guys went to a MMA gym and applied this strategy then I am comfortable in saying that they were trying it against individuals to inexperienced to know how to get out of it. the individual panicked or didn't know what the hell they were doing.

[mantis7]

The forward rush would be more effective because it creates a gap that can be utilized for escape. While pushing forward the opponents legs are still free but it will force them to either release the grip or sprawl downwards to maintain control of your neck.

IF you have two points of contact the opponent will fall on their back and force them to draw you into their guard. They can still control your neck with a guillotine like lock, pull you in to a guard position or if you are lucky you can gain full mount but he can still maintain a semblance of control over your neck.

[Kymus]

If your guys went to a MMA gym and applied this strategy then I am comfortable in saying that they were trying it against individuals to inexperienced to know how to get out of it. the individual panicked or didn't know what the hell they were doing.

I've never been to an MMA gym, but the MMA guys I've seen on YouTube def don't know how to properly use Muay Thai. For whatever it's worth.

[YouKnowWho]

I just tried this technique out. To do this we have to assume that we can loop the hand over while pulling out of the clinch...The reaction time of the opponent will make this an extremely low percentage move almost to the point of uselessness. As soon as you start to shift your weight to get our and swing the arm you either be jerked to either side or your head would be pulled down to stop your movement. This would only work if you are working with a compliant opponent.

I don't understand why it's so difficult for your arms to "pull out" of the clinch. What if your arms are already out and you don't need to pull out?

In this clip staring from 2.45, both person's heads were about on the same level. Neither one can bend the other's neck. That's the situation I'm talking about. Please notice that the guy using MT clinch had both arms inside his opponent's arms. The other guy's both arms were completely outside of his opponent's arms. There is no need to "pull out".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdcQYP-jjSQ

[mantis7]

At 2.45, look at their arms. Do you think the person could actually twist while being controlled to pull off a headlock? Both their arms are raised, to actually trap both his arms would be dam near impossible.

He still has control and can control the neck. If he was even close to applying the headlock all it would take is a simple back step and the lock would not be applied.