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Thread: MT Clinch

  1. #1
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    MT Clinch

    When your opponent uses MT clinch on you, if you use "head lock", you can lock his head along with both of his arms. Since his arms will be jamed between your body and his bodies, you can disable his arms.

    Have you ever try this? What's your experience on this?

    http://imageshack.us/a/img407/6162/2l5e.jpg
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-19-2013 at 06:07 PM.
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    I'm confused by this. You don't mean after being clinched, do you?
    If a MT practitioner uses this clinch well, your head is pinned in tight and they usually control your balance and can detect a lot of your movements. How would the defender do a head lock from this position?

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    I don't think that'll work. Any MT guy trained properly is going to have full control over you once you're in that clinch. They will gladly sway you from side to side until you stop moving long enough for them to drive in their knees.

    In Muay Thai, there are 2 ways we (or at least I) learned to avoid the kneeing and 2 ways to reverse or get out of a clinch:

    1. Bear hug them and they can't really knee you (though they probably will attempt to elbow you in the head)
    2. bring both fists out and against their stomach, with arms locked. They won't be able to effectively knee you. But you're still open up top (unless your reaction time is real good)
    3. You can reverse the clinch by pushing their chin up and then snaking your arms in and applying the clinch on them (this one's harder for me to explain since it's been probably 5 - 7 years since I've done it)
    4. You can break the clinch by "popping"; pull one of their elbows down and pop the other one up


    I've seen videos on YouTube purporting on how to get out of a MT clinch, and I don't think most of the techniques would work. Furthermore, most of them don't seem to know how to properly do a MT clinch.

    Anyway, that's my 2 cents
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sima Rong View Post
    I'm confused by this. You don't mean after being clinched, do you?
    If a MT practitioner uses this clinch well, your head is pinned in tight and they usually control your balance and can detect a lot of your movements. How would the defender do a head lock from this position?
    Bingo!

    1234543651
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  5. #5
    Greetings,

    I am really not into sport combatives.

    Have any of you simply tried a strong forward rush? the guy can not do much if his weight is continually being shifted back to his heels.


    mickey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sima Rong View Post
    I'm confused by this. You don't mean after being clinched, do you?
    If a MT practitioner uses this clinch well, your head is pinned in tight and they usually control your balance and can detect a lot of your movements. How would the defender do a head lock from this position?
    If your opponent's clinch can pin your head, you already lose by my definition. You assume your MT opponent has better clinching skill than you do. Sometime that may not be the case if you are a good wrestler.

    2 of my guys had tried this in their MMA gyms. Both of them told me it worked very well. The reason is simple. It's not a good feeling to have your arms to be jamed between bodies. I assume different people may have different experience.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-19-2013 at 08:19 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Have any of you simply tried a strong forward rush? the guy can not do much if his weight is continually being shifted back to his heels.
    The "forward rush" is 1 point contact. Since your opponent's legs are still free, it may not work well. If your leg can hook on your opponent's "back" leg (2 points contact), if will work better.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2gLOWehvdg
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-19-2013 at 08:14 PM.
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    If your opponent's clinch can pin your head, you already lose by my definition. You assume your MT opponent has better clinching skill than you do. Sometime that may not be the case if you are a good wrestler.

    2 of my guys had tried this in their MMA gym. Both of them told me it worked very well. The reason is simple. It's not a good feeling to have your arms to be jamed between bodies.
    The headlock won't work because of the following:

    1. The clinch is situated for a quick release when countered. To apply the head lock your speed would need to exceed the speed of your opponents letting go of his clasped hands.

    2. Your reach much exceed to the circumference of the opponents arms and head combined. The girth and arm strength require to hold on to such a lock would have to exceed the strength and reaction time of your opponent.

    3. The clinch is a situated in such a way that when your opponent controls the neck the body will follow. If you swing your arm wide it will only take a small movement to counter a large swing by throwing off your balance enough to disrupt the attempt.

    4. Pinning the opponents arms to the side of his head creates a spatial gap between the opponents bodies allowing the other opponent to easily twist out of the headlock.

    Applying a clinch is a simple task and is easily applied in a stand up grappling situation. If you think someone has already lost because they have become the recipient of a clinch then you need to go train at a MT gym and learn the actual strategy behind it. Even the best MT guy and wrestlers can easily fall victim to this hold but it is not a losing moment. It should be an expected moment because it is easily applied and not completely avoidable.

    If your guys went to a MMA gym and applied this strategy then I am comfortable in saying that they were trying it against individuals to inexperienced to know how to get out of it. the individual panicked or didn't know what the hell they were doing.
    What, me worry?

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    The forward rush would be more effective because it creates a gap that can be utilized for escape. While pushing forward the opponents legs are still free but it will force them to either release the grip or sprawl downwards to maintain control of your neck.

    IF you have two points of contact the opponent will fall on their back and force them to draw you into their guard. They can still control your neck with a guillotine like lock, pull you in to a guard position or if you are lucky you can gain full mount but he can still maintain a semblance of control over your neck.
    What, me worry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    I am really not into sport combatives.

    Have any of you simply tried a strong forward rush? the guy can not do much if his weight is continually being shifted back to his heels.


    mickey
    They'd spin you out and try to give a strong kick to the back or side of your legs as your spinning. It wouldn't work.
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  11. #11
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    I just tried this technique out. To do this we have to assume that we can loop the hand over while pulling out of the clinch...The reaction time of the opponent will make this an extremely low percentage move almost to the point of uselessness. As soon as you start to shift your weight to get our and swing the arm you either be jerked to either side or your head would be pulled down to stop your movement. This would only work if you are working with a compliant opponent.
    What, me worry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis7 View Post
    If your guys went to a MMA gym and applied this strategy then I am comfortable in saying that they were trying it against individuals to inexperienced to know how to get out of it. the individual panicked or didn't know what the hell they were doing.
    I've never been to an MMA gym, but the MMA guys I've seen on YouTube def don't know how to properly use Muay Thai. For whatever it's worth.
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  13. #13
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    I'm also not sure how you mean to get a headlock while in a MT clinch. Please explain further.

    Here's the way I deal with clinch.

    First thing is if it's a good clinch then their elbows are in tight which means that bear hugging is hard to do so I walk my hips in a bit and posture up so I don't have to reach down to block the knees. Then bring both hands over the top of his arms and push his face back and to one side and then weave my arms in one at a time from the bottom and get a clinch myself or break it loose and throw some strikes.

    Second is to cross face with one hand over the top of his arms and brace against the top of the shoulder then pop up that same arm at the elbow and either strike the ribs, get out or go for a side arm and head choke.

    Third is to reach under, strike the inside of one elbow with an open palm and if it breaks the grip then go for a under hook and sweep or throw them.

    Another that sometimes works is to reach under to the opposite arm, palm on top of the biceps and leverage the other arm up to create space and then either break loose or get my own clinch.

    Those are a few of the nicer moves for sparring. For the street just reach up the middle and eagle claw that throat or reach over the top and thumbs in the eyes.

    There are a few more but those are the most effective in my opinion.
    Last edited by GoldenBrain; 06-19-2013 at 08:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis7 View Post
    I just tried this technique out. To do this we have to assume that we can loop the hand over while pulling out of the clinch...The reaction time of the opponent will make this an extremely low percentage move almost to the point of uselessness. As soon as you start to shift your weight to get our and swing the arm you either be jerked to either side or your head would be pulled down to stop your movement. This would only work if you are working with a compliant opponent.
    IMO, it's probably better to just get out of it the Muay Thai way, though I think that it's possible a throw could work. I don't know enough about throwing to really say, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis7 View Post
    I just tried this technique out. To do this we have to assume that we can loop the hand over while pulling out of the clinch...The reaction time of the opponent will make this an extremely low percentage move almost to the point of uselessness. As soon as you start to shift your weight to get our and swing the arm you either be jerked to either side or your head would be pulled down to stop your movement. This would only work if you are working with a compliant opponent.
    I don't understand why it's so difficult for your arms to "pull out" of the clinch. What if your arms are already out and you don't need to pull out?

    In this clip staring from 2.45, both person's heads were about on the same level. Neither one can bend the other's neck. That's the situation I'm talking about. Please notice that the guy using MT clinch had both arms inside his opponent's arms. The other guy's both arms were completely outside of his opponent's arms. There is no need to "pull out".

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdcQYP-jjSQ
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-19-2013 at 08:54 PM.
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