Registered User
really you have never heardof a wrestler go to a thai gym in order to learn how to strike in the clinch....never... so the likes of matt hughes, kenny johnson, et al never went to trained thai guys to learn wrestling with striking?Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
thats the problem, you dont see thai boxing as wrestling, it is its simply wrestling with strikes and l;imited takedowns, and pure wrestlers go to thai gyms to learn clinch striking skills all the time
Registered User
The mt clinch is dynamic not static and the mt fighter will use what ever energy or movement you give them against you. There is no simple answer or technique to deal with it. If there was mt fighters since they do lots and lots of clinch sparring would have found it already. The answer to the mt clinch is found in the mt clinch as mt fighters have worked out the best defenses and answers already. This question is like asking how to deal with closed guard.
Registered User
I started this thread so we have something interest to discuss. I'm in the listening mode (but I still have to explain my opinion first). It makes no sense for me to start a thread so I can argue with everybody. It's perfect OK to have different opinions on this. That's the purpose for discussion.
It's not fair to assume one party knows how to use elbow and knee while assume the other party doesn't. It's also not fair to assume that one party can pin his opponent's head down. Just to be fair. Let's assume both parties
- know how to use elbow and knee.
- heads are on the same level.
The main discussion is when one party applies MT clinch with both arms insides his opponent's arms while the other party applies head lock with both arms outside of his opponent's arm, who has advantage at that particular moment?
My understanding is it's much easier to "squeeze" from outside in. It's much harder to expand (counter squeeze) from inside out. The person who "squeeze" from outside in can take advantage on his body mass and gravity. The person who tries to expand (counter squeeze) from inside out won't have that advantage.
http://imageshack.us/a/img444/5471/octopus.jpg
I have tested this myself by asking my opponent to "squeeze" from outside of my arms as hard as he could. My opponent's "squeeze" made me to feel that I couldn't use my arms at that moment. It put me in defense mode trying to free my arms first.
Again, I don't know it's fair or not not to include the knee striking factor in the discussion since MT clinch is designed with striking in mind.
Now I have explained my opinion. I'll put myself in "listen" mode.
Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-20-2013 at 11:01 AM.
http://johnswang.com
More opinion -> more argument
Less opinion -> less argument
No opinion -> no argument
Troll Slayer
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And done, LOL !
Granted that, at times, you may not have a choice BUT to block the knees, BUT you want to transition from that to getting inclose ASAP !
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
The Progressive Boxer
I was hoping you would chime in Ross!
I am familiar with most of those techniques and the variations and applications make perfect sense to me based on the MT I learned. The hip throw is one application I've seen elsewhere that I think would work well on a MT guy.
It is not my intention to nitpick, but I would like to ask why there is that open space during the clinch? Is this a variation seen in other arts? I always learned it like this; very tight and with the head to the side. FWIW.
addendum: knee blocking = "oh sh!t what do I do?!?!" freak out moment. At that point, you won.
Troll Slayer
put your head there and I have some very nasty surprises for you....I was hoping you would chime in Ross!
I am familiar with most of those techniques and the variations and applications make perfect sense to me based on the MT I learned. The hip throw is one application I've seen elsewhere that I think would work well on a MT guy.
It is not my intention to nitpick, but I would like to ask why there is that open space during the clinch? Is this a variation seen in other arts? I always learned it like this; very tight and with the head to the side. FWIW.
addendum: knee blocking = "oh sh!t what do I do?!?!" freak out moment. At that point, you won.
my clinch is not muay thai strictly speaking, it is a mixture of a lot of things and mostly for MMA and self defense... but it does work quite well in MT, we have beaten a lot of MT camps in MT competiton
Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253
Troll Slayer
don't block the knee
unless of course you are fighting me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05Y2TTcxlts
Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253
The Progressive Boxer
When I return to NYC in a few years, I'll hit you up. I'm very curious to see this surprise you mention. I'll bring a friend; you can demonstrate on them
Troll Slayer
a true friend you areWhen I return to NYC in a few years, I'll hit you up. I'm very curious to see this surprise you mention. I'll bring a friend; you can demonstrate on them
Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253
The Progressive Boxer
There's a buddy of mine I've been teaching MT to for years. In our circle, he's nicknamed the mutant. If he needs to, he can take a sh!tload of pain. He also used to be in an indie freak show as a human dart board so.........a true friend you are
One time I got him in an armbar and I felt his elbow start to pop. He didn't tap; I let go. Crazy a$$.
Registered User
Have you tried to take your opponent down when he knees you with only one standing leg by
- "hooking" his standing leg? or
- "single leg", drop one hand to grab below his knee joint?
I have always believed that if a wrestler can't take his opponent down when his opponent tries to knee him in a clinch, there is something wrong in his training. That means the wrestling doesn't have a good listening skill, and won't be able to detect his opponent's intention tries to raise his knee.
Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-20-2013 at 12:19 PM.
http://johnswang.com
More opinion -> more argument
Less opinion -> less argument
No opinion -> no argument
Troll Slayer
I have some video of this, I will put up when I find it....
(over 300 clips, hard to remember where stuff is LOL)
....
just a little bit of this idea at 3:04 of this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLc993uxqpY
Last edited by lkfmdc; 06-20-2013 at 12:22 PM.
Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253
Registered User
Yes!
- To position one of your legs (door axis) to the position that you want it to be.
- Wait for your opponent to attack.
- You then attack his standing leg with your other leg (door frame).
In TCMA, this is called to "hide your preparation in your previous move". If you have to position your leg while your opponent tries to knee you, you have to make 2 moves (position your leg, attack his standing leg) instead of just one move (attack his standing leg). That will be too slow.
My guys also trained those drills daily since most Sanda do allow knee (but not elbow).
Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-20-2013 at 12:35 PM.
http://johnswang.com
More opinion -> more argument
Less opinion -> less argument
No opinion -> no argument
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