Chinese Martial Arts before the JingWu

[David Jamieson]

From jingmo.org:

Tai Chien's (A.K.A. Sik Kuen) Philosophy (1970's)



“Two things which impeded kung fu are the instructors themselves. Many follow blindly to the way they were taught. Some are not open minded enough to accept other styles as their equal and overcome the superiority syndrome. We must bear in mind that in every style there is benefits for everyone to gain.”



"The position of Sifu is not for the purpose of the Sifu to show off but to cultivate new students and to help persevere the Chinese martial arts.”



“The knowledge of martial arts is not just reading a few ancient novels of martial arts. It is important to the martial art cultivation of a person. One can never make great achievements if one confines the learning to one style and pay no respect to the strong points of other styles. Therefore a martial artist must have a broad knowledge and he must be modest technically, not contenting himself with one style of his own and negating other styles. In short, one must have a rich knowledge of martial arts.”

Does this sound like a deluded fairy dancer? Or is this the same horn some of you guys are blowing?

Diminishment of the idea of one person in time or small parts of an overarching concept is in my mind the game of a dull mind. In the end you aren't anyone else but you. If you enjoy what you enjoy, you don't have to justify yourself to anyone, ever.

If they don't like what you do? Screw them, they aren't being invited to do it. If guys from on world want to change another to be more like there's? All the more reason to resist that.

The whole presentation of "kung fu" is bad because of the reasons given is shoddy and not well thought out. If you are a Kung Fu person and you think it's bad, then change yourself, make your Kung fu what you think it should be instead of trying to find a place in someone else's experience. Find your own if you think yourself better. While you really work on it instead of blowing hard as many do, your own sense of ridiculing others where it is not merited will disappear.

[bawang]

While you really work on it instead of blowing hard as many do, your own sense of ridiculing others where it is not merited will disappear.

I am so glad you have decided to change your ways, fdavif jamesion. I am proud of you. it takes a lot of courage to write an apology like that.

[David Jamieson]

I am so glad you have decided to change your ways, fdavif jamesion. I am proud of you. it takes a lot of courage to write an apology like that.

Jim, you are such a troll. lol
Read an old newspaper then take out your racist anger on old white karate men.
That is your Kung Fu.

[IronWeasel]

Jim, you are such a troll. lol
Read an old newspaper then take out your racist anger on old white karate men.
That is your Kung Fu.

Jim?


ha.....

[bawang]

Jim, you are such a troll. lol
Read an old newspaper then take out your racist anger on old white karate men.
That is your Kung Fu.

what the hell does racism have to do with anything?

[David Jamieson]

Jim?


ha.....

yeah, and I'm bones, what of it?

It's the only way I get to remark at the end of the fight with: "He's dead Jim"

we're star trek fans...

tai ghak yin is spock and ten tigers is pike and lkfmdc is nurse chapel.

we larp on friday afternoons.

[sanjuro_ronin]

the boxer rebellion was not based in superstition. the leaders of the boxer rebellion knew exactly what they were doing. this is the ultimate result of the power of kung fu on someones mind. that's why the kmt guoshu program removed all religious and combat aspects out of kung fu. this is why even some rational westerners go crazy after training traditional kung fu.

indoctrination methods in kung fu like carrot on a stick, smoke and mirrors, advancing meaningless ranks, hidden secret at the end of training, excruciating painful exercises, come straight from white lotus.

Yes, there is truth here.
Lots of "visualization" techniques and such can cause mental issues, not to mention when you start delving into the "animal possession" stuff and "sun dar".

[David Jamieson]

Yes, there is truth here.
Lots of "visualization" techniques and such can cause mental issues, not to mention when you start delving into the "animal possession" stuff and "sun dar".

I think the results showed us what a pile of crap that was.

[lkfmdc]

I am really glad to see all this stuff discussed here!

I have written a lot of similar stuff and I STRONGLY recommend people read stuff like Brian Kennedy and Stanley Henning for example....

How to summarize complicated stuff?

The vision we have of TCMA today was filtered through the late 19th and early 20th century and the very real social and historical contexts of those times

Most educated elite viewed TCMA as "bad"
- it was physical activity, you got sweaty and dirty
- it was done by rude, ignorant, superstitious peasants
- it glorified violence and disrupted social order

The fiasco of the boxer uprising gave most society a very negative impression of martial arts. Elites such as Lu Xun denounced TCMA people

In addition, the entire society was starting to have doubts about the virtues of traditional Chinese society, the "new culture movement" basically said China's culture was the reason for all its political woes

TCMA might have completely died in this period if not for some historical ironies

Strong nationalist sentiments, militaristic in nature, the REAL "May 4th" (which many scholars themselves confuse with "new culture") called for a nation strong enough to defend against foreign intrustion. Highly nationalistic and xenophobic in nature, TCMA was turned to as the native source of a revitalized militarized nation

Other intellectuals, many more liberal in leanings were introduced the new physical education movement and it's ideas. They saw problems such as public health, physical and mental hygene as potentially served by a new appraoch to TCMA

Of course, educated and liberal, they wanted a "new" approach to TCMA, with the violence and superstition removed, ie a sanitized TCMA

Finally, polirtically martial arts had always been the source of regional uprisings, used by criminal elements and produced men not loyal to society but to their lineage, men-pai, teachers, clans and secret societies

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think the results showed us what a pile of crap that was.

Depends on the context.
Ever heard of the "berserkers"?
Same concept really.
Every nation/culture/society/warrior cast had their version and to the degree it worked depended on what it was used for.

[David Jamieson]

Depends on the context.
Ever heard of the "berserkers"?
Same concept really.
Every nation/culture/society/warrior cast had their version and to the degree it worked depended on what it was used for.

Berserkers, yes. Not a lot of good history on them but they were known.

The boxers were duped by shamanistic frauds.
The proof of that is running at line infantry armed with rifles while all you have is a sword and a talisman. They resolved nothing and are still ridiculed for their magical beliefs in the here and now.

Berserkers had no guns to fear, were often mounted, ate hash and drank their enemies blood straight from the neck. Huge difference between that and some religiously deluded farmers being used as pawns in a desperate attempt to ward off foreign invasion.

[bawang]

The boxers were duped by shamanistic frauds.
The proof of that is running at line infantry armed with rifles while all you have is a sword and a talisman. They resolved nothing and are still ridiculed for their magical beliefs in the here and now.

ur an ignorant moran.

the boxers lost because they were fighting against eight countries. after it was over all plans of colonization were abandoned, it seems pretty successful to me.

[David Jamieson]

ur an ignorant moran.

the boxers lost because they were fighting against eight countries, even including us marines.

*moron

the boxers lost because they thought Fu would stop bullets.
the boxers lost because militarily they were too far behind their opponents.
the boxers lost because they believed in fairy tales.
bottom line, the boxers lost, period.

not to mention, they killed more of their own people than the foreigners did.

[bawang]

*moron

the boxers lost because they thought Fu would stop bullets.
the boxers lost because militarily they were too far behind their opponents.
the boxers lost because they believed in fairy tales.
bottom line, the boxers lost, period.

not to mention, they killed more of their own people than the foreigners did.

this is the legacy of Chinese martial arts. no matter how ugly and horrible and primitive it is, this is the tradition you chose to dabble in.

im not supporting the boxers, but this is part of history. just because you don't like something doesn't mean you can bury it. you move on from history, but you don't deny history.

[Kymus]

ur an ignorant moran.