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Thread: Anyone here into Reptiles need help ID this reptile?

  1. #46
    Greetings,

    So she is a female.

    Now I understand......

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a28kY1-s-Vc



    mickey

  2. #47
    I understand the desire to preserve life and I applaud the whole catch and release attitude.... BUT invasive species can be absolutely devastating. I dunno if they are or not, but if they are..... you save the lives of local species by eradicating populations that would displace the natives.

  3. #48
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    If we were talking about people it would be racist and discriminatory but because we are talking about lizards, its ok. Many parallels could be drawn and often are. But I am all about life and equal opportunity and let natural selection work it out. Whether its people or non people.

    this sort of thing has been going on for they say millions of years. one species rises, one falls wash rinse repeat, the circle of life. Who am I to say who lives and who dies.

    I love life, all life. They can work it out for themselves. Eventually there will be some kind of stasis. I admit my viewpoint may be naive as I do not know the ramifications of invasive species but what can really happen? There are plenty of hawks and kits that love to eat lizards. I say let mother nature work it out, its always better than when people try to meddle with it.

    Same thing when talking about saving some spoted snail that lives in some obscure part of the globe. It doesnt matter, species die, new species come into existence, it happens all the time, happened for millions of years before the few decades anyone ever even cared about it, and it will happen millions if not trillions and infinite years after we are gone, and when our star implodes it will still be happening some other solar system. If we are here by mathematical probability and the whole thing is such, then there is 100% certainty given time is infinite that it has happend, is happening and will happen again.

    Ok emotional discharge finished. Carry on.

  4. #49
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    Update

    Ok, I have an update on the lizard. We have authoritative confirmation.

    I just got my first official response from the Florida Wildlife people here it is.




    "The lizard in the photo is a black spiny-tailed iguana (Ctenosaura similis), an introduced species.

    Kevin M. Enge

    Associate Research Scientist

    Reptile and Amphibian Research Subsection

    Fish and Wildlife Research Institute

    Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission

    1105 SW Williston Road

    Gainesville, FL 32601-9044"

  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFubar View Post
    If we were talking about people it would be racist and discriminatory but because we are talking about lizards, its ok. Many parallels could be drawn and often are. But I am all about life and equal opportunity and let natural selection work it out. Whether its people or non people.

    this sort of thing has been going on for they say millions of years. one species rises, one falls wash rinse repeat, the circle of life. Who am I to say who lives and who dies.

    I love life, all life. They can work it out for themselves. Eventually there will be some kind of stasis. I admit my viewpoint may be naive as I do not know the ramifications of invasive species but what can really happen? There are plenty of hawks and kits that love to eat lizards. I say let mother nature work it out, its always better than when people try to meddle with it.

    Same thing when talking about saving some spoted snail that lives in some obscure part of the globe. It doesnt matter, species die, new species come into existence, it happens all the time, happened for millions of years before the few decades anyone ever even cared about it, and it will happen millions if not trillions and infinite years after we are gone, and when our star implodes it will still be happening some other solar system. If we are here by mathematical probability and the whole thing is such, then there is 100% certainty given time is infinite that it has happend, is happening and will happen again.

    Ok emotional discharge finished. Carry on.
    Are you calling me a lizardracist? I can't believe you just pulled the race card. Ok lemme demolish that!

    Look, if you wanna catch it and send it back to it's homeland, great.

    And you make a great point, but I disagree with your conclusions. If a race of humans comes to your land and starts killing off your people.... you have every right to grind them into the dust... period. There is a huge diff between peaceful coexistence and displacement. When you say that we have been migrating and displacing eachother(human or animal) for millions of years... you sir are correct. Just one thing you left out. ANd this part is very important. The timeline. It's like climate change. Yeah sure we are at the end of a cycle and yeah we are moving thru the galaxy in a manner which causes climate change. No doubt. But here's the kicker... none of that shit is supposed to happen over short periods of time. When it does, the net benefits are in the negative. EVERY SINGLE TIME. There is a reason why natural change is slow.

  6. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFubar View Post
    Ok, I have an update on the lizard. We have authoritative confirmation.

    I just got my first official response from the Florida Wildlife people here it is.




    "The lizard in the photo is a black spiny-tailed iguana (Ctenosaura similis), an introduced species.

    Kevin M. Enge

    Associate Research Scientist

    Reptile and Amphibian Research Subsection

    Fish and Wildlife Research Institute

    Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission

    1105 SW Williston Road

    Gainesville, FL 32601-9044"

    Invasive or no? Did you even ask?

  7. #52

    related matter..

    Greetings,

    I think the greatest mistake down in Florida with the damage to the ecosystem caused by the monitor/lizards is the thinking that we are not a part of that ecosystem. bawang is absolutely right about eating those monitors. If they can put alligator tails in a can, why not monitor tails? Doing so will help maintain a certain balance.

    Whaddihya think?


    mckey

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    Invasive or no? Did you even ask?
    he said in the email that it is an "introduced" species. so I wrote him back and asked him if that is the same as "invasive". I am waiting for his reply.

    Now on to your lizardcism. A few post back you advised me to leave a little fruit snack for this lizard, now in this post he is public enemy number one, tantamount to armed invaders slaughering and killing "our people" and therefoe these lizrds should be destroyed to "dust" just as enemies invading our land kiling our people should be. This is not consistent . Who are they killing that can be equated to "our people"? Tread lightly as the parallels become closer and closer to home.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    I think the greatest mistake down in Florida with the damage to the ecosystem caused by the monitor/lizards is the thinking that we are not a part of that ecosystem. bawang is absolutely right about eating those monitors. If they can put alligator tails in a can, why not monitor tails? Doing so will help maintain a certain balance.

    Whaddihya think?


    mckey
    it was my idea to eat them. Im always looking for inexpensive protein sources
    Last edited by KungFubar; 06-24-2013 at 11:43 AM.

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFubar View Post
    he said in the email that it is an "introduced" species. so I wrote him back and asked him if that is the same as "invasive". I am waiting for his reply.

    Now on to your lizardcism. A few post back you advised me to leave a little fruit snack for this lizard, now in this post he is public enemy number one, tantamount to armed invaders slaughering and killing "our people" and therefoe these lizrds should be destroyed to "dust" just as enemies invading our land kiling our people should be. This is not consistent . Who are they killing that can be equated to "our people"? Tread lightly as the parallels become closer and closer to home.
    I never said feed it fruit. I said bait a trap. And the purpose was to get a closer look. I believe I also said, and if I didn't I should have, that you should turn it in to Control.


    I love the parallel and Natives had every right to fight off the euro invaders. At this point it's not going to happen, so the point is moot... but they still had every right to try and force "us" off their land. We came and we did not peacefully coexist. So yeah, defense is always valid when attacked. And invasive species LITERALLY attack the locals they are in competition with. Before humans moved around so fast, it took eons for a species to migrate across the globe, now they do it in fruit crates. Know the difference. There is being kind to animals and then there is being irresponsible. If you wanna catch and release, cool. Shipping an invasive lizard back home is NOT the same as saying we should deport mexicans, for example. IMO most immigrants in the US add to the culture and benefit us in the long run. Again... know the difference. They come to coexist, not eradicate Americans.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    I never said feed it fruit. I said bait a trap. And the purpose was to get a closer look. I believe I also said, and if I didn't I should have, that you should turn it in to Control.


    I love the parallel and Natives had every right to fight off the euro invaders. At this point it's not going to happen, so the point is moot... but they still had every right to try and force "us" off their land. We came and we did not peacefully coexist. So yeah, defense is always valid when attacked. And invasive species LITERALLY attack the locals they are in competition with. Before humans moved around so fast, it took eons for a species to migrate across the globe, now they do it in fruit crates. Know the difference. There is being kind to animals and then there is being irresponsible. If you wanna catch and release, cool. Shipping an invasive lizard back home is NOT the same as saying we should deport mexicans, for example. IMO most immigrants in the US add to the culture and benefit us in the long run. Again... know the difference. They come to coexist, not eradicate Americans.
    somoene said bait it with fruit, it may not have been you. in any case all that is fine, agreeable and understood, the rub is this:

    how are these fruit eating iguanas comparable to armed invaders that kill? They arent killing our people are they? Why dont you count the iguanas as adding to culture like the immigrants they are. I mean this IS america isnt it? Have the iguanas come here to erradicate americans? Did they even choose to come here? They are here because people brought them here as pets. and now they are here through no fault of their own and certainly not through any intention to erradicate Americans.

    What is so bad about these Iguanas that cant be said about immigrants or the species that are already here?
    Last edited by KungFubar; 06-24-2013 at 12:35 PM.

  12. #57
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    Another Update

    Heres another update in response to my follow up questions to the wildlife people.

    "I’ve attached a photo of an adult male and a paper that gives more information. Yours is an immature animal that was probably born last year. They typically don’t eat carrion, so the mouth bacteria are not as bad as for monitors. Adults are primarily vegetarians. It is illegal to relocate it, so if you trap it, it should be killed. They will definitely bite hard, so be careful. An invasive species is an introduced species that has negative ecological, economic, or public health impacts. Spinytail iguanas are considered invasive. If you send me your address, I can determine if this is a significant sighting and warrants reporting. Thanks.



    Kevin Enge

    Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission"

  13. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFubar View Post
    somoene said bait it with fruit, it may not have been you. in any case all that is fine, agreeable and understood, the rub is this:

    how are these fruit eating iguanas comparable to armed invaders that kill? They arent killing our people are they? Why dont you count the iguanas as adding to culture like the immigrants they are. I mean this IS america isnt it? Have the iguanas come here to erradicate americans? Did they even choose to come here? They are here because people brought them here as pets. and now they are here through no fault of their own and certainly not through any intention to erradicate Americans.

    What is so bad about these Iguanas that cant be said about immigrants or the species that are already here?
    Ok so without giving you a brief history on evolutionary biology and eco management... it's like this:

    It takes a LONG time for any animal to develop a natural defense to any predator. When a predator is introduced to an ecosystem too fast it causes an imbalance. This imbalance affects us all. So yes, an invasive species is actually quite similar to an armed invader, whether they are eating the young, tearing through the food source too fast or just straight up killing them. There are many more, but it takes too long to get into all that. It is straight up irresponsible and WRONG to introduce an invasive species to a system that has little to no time to properly adapt. PERIOD. Your lack of foresight is dangerous. This is a classic example of why I call myself progressive but not a "liberal". If it wasn't for people like drake, people like you would get run through in a heartbeat.


    Listen to your local wildlife rep. he knows what he's talking about.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    Ok so without giving you a brief history on evolutionary biology and eco management... it's like this:

    It takes a LONG time for any animal to develop a natural defense to any predator. When a predator is introduced to an ecosystem too fast it causes an imbalance. This imbalance affects us all. So yes, an invasive species is actually quite similar to an armed invader, whether they are eating the young, tearing through the food source too fast or just straight up killing them. There are many more, but it takes too long to get into all that. It is straight up irresponsible and WRONG to introduce an invasive species to a system that has little to no time to properly adapt. PERIOD. Your lack of foresight is dangerous. This is a classic example of why I call myself progressive but not a "liberal". If it wasn't for people like drake, people like you would get run through in a heartbeat.


    Listen to your local wildlife rep. he knows what he's talking about.
    why is this on me? I only observed this cool animal in my backyard. Now Im expected to be its executioner. Now people want to run me through? I have no evidence showing this animal is harmful to anyone. I suspect they just want to keep the traditional wildlife and try to keep it from changing simply for tourism sake. Sorry thats not good enough. People need to stop trying to control everything especially for the sake of money. So do you have any examples why this animal is bad for human beings in florida?
    Last edited by KungFubar; 06-24-2013 at 03:25 PM.

  15. #60
    It's called responsibility. We all have the same responsibilities in this respect. You have the opportunity to help mitigate damage to your community. You don't have to kill it. There are tons of options. It's just that pretending it's either not a problem or simply not your problem is irresponsible...


    And newsflash, there are unpleasant people out there that would do you harm. There are also relatively decent people who have to do somewhat unpalatable things in order to keep that from happening. Don't take your idealism too far, man. Stay grounded in reality. Don't rest on your privileged laurels.


    Done....

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