Anyone here into Reptiles need help ID this reptile?

[KungFubar]

I usually have a live and let live policy, but there is a red line. I will catch and release "undesirables" like spiders and stuff. I don't mind sharing my living space with the odd ant or whatever, but when you start finding them all up in your food and stuff, that's when it's time to take more aggressive action. Otherwise I don't really mind. I know how to share. But it's a whole different thing when it comes to non native invasives that are doing damage in one way or another.

we arent that far apart my friend.

[Syn7]

Word...

If you do manage to trap it, you should either hand it into Control or donate it to a reptile research facility. But don't sell it to some douche with 400 reptiles in his two bedroom apartment or even a reputable reptile dealer. Donate it to the cause. It's Florida, shouldn't be hard to find the right guy to hand it over to. Personally, I don't agree with the buying and selling of any animals.

[SoCo KungFu]

Do you think that if it was a pet that it will find a mate anyways? Prolly just live solo then die when it's ready anyways... no? I would be more likely to be concerned if I saw multiples. Know what I mean?

There's gotta be an established way to trap these guys reliably though? Or is it a sit on your porch with a weapon scenario?

We don't really have lizards here. Salamanders, but nothing much bigger. Lots of snakes though, but nothing threatening. And not hard to find and catch if you can get to em before they go to ground.

We have had a few of those snakehead sightings. Kind of alarming. They drained a whole pond because somebody said they saw one. Found a bunch of non natives, but nothing invasive. Mostly turtles. Pets, I imagine. But those snakeheads can be a serious problem. Mos def a kill on sight kind of deal. I hear they are a real problem on the east coast of the US.


I usually have a live and let live policy, but there is a red line. I will catch and release "undesirables" like spiders and stuff. I don't mind sharing my living space with the odd ant or whatever, but when you start finding them all up in your food and stuff, that's when it's time to take more aggressive action. Otherwise I don't really mind. I know how to share. But it's a whole different thing when it comes to non native invasives that are doing damage in one way or another.

Keep in mind I'm not an expert. I'm not a herpetologist. I'm just an amateur herp enthusiast. Like bird watching, only I get into snakes and such. And in the southeast its just part of life.

The likelihood of any individual finding a mate is small, pet or no. Unfortunately, it hasn't stopped them from establishing. There's enough out there that you really can't take that approach any longer. Florida is just really full of invasive reptiles of all sorts. There's really no way to know if it was a pet or not. It could just as easily be a juvenile trying to find its own home.

There are some ways you can trap them. But nothing that I would say is reliable. I've looked into it in the past when some local pest control guys (seriously, I now it sounds like I "know" everyone, but this "city" is a pretty small town; 5 miles any direction and you're in farm country) were asking me if I had any ideas because they often get calls to come remove snakes. Basically they wanted something they could set out and go do something else as opposed to trying to find them, because time is money. There's some stuff. The best bet I've seen may be these cahaba traps (or a generic version of, its basically glue in a box). If you check it often, you can remove the animal before it dies and it should survive with no harm. The problem with trapping herps, they don't hunt the way mammals do, they don't get "attracted" like a mammal. Basically, you have ambush hunters and foragers. Ambush hunters like rattlesnakes will usually use sight. Then (if its something venomous) after a bite it will track using chemical olfactory. So good luck attracting that. Foragers hunt by olfactory primarily, but in this case we're talking about an animal that feeds primarily on vegetation. Again, good luck attracting that.

And traps themselves don't work to attract them. Basically, you're giving it a shelter much like the cover tins we use in the woods which I've already mentioned. That's the extent of its attraction. You can try to increase the odds by placing it along a path, if you know the route its using. But that is much more effective indoors than outdoors where you may have no idea how many alternate routes something is using. So, its really a matter of setting and hoping for the best.

Really, they've tried just about everything you can think of in FL to control invasives and nothing really works. That should tell you about all you need to know on the matter. Its one of those things that the best environmental policy was to never let it happen to begin with. Too late. But that's sort of how it goes with a lot of environmental stuff (cough climate change cough). Problem is convincing people its important enough to care about. And important enough to inconvenience their life over.

Summary: There's some traps out there. I'm not convinced they're worth the money. Catching herps in the wild is more a matter of how much effort are you willing to put out. Best thing to do on the whole would be to let the dogs on it. Probably better for environment too. That said, I understand wanting to keep it alive. If you're into herps, it would make a cool pet for someone responsible enough to properly care for and contain it.

[Lucas]

Word...

If you do manage to trap it, you should either hand it into Control or donate it to a reptile research facility. But don't sell it to some douche with 400 reptiles in his two bedroom apartment or even a reputable reptile dealer. Donate it to the cause. It's Florida, shouldn't be hard to find the right guy to hand it over to. Personally, I don't agree with the buying and selling of any animals.

what about feeder animals like mice? i mean its pretty clear that they are being purchased for murder.

[SoCo KungFu]

Word...

If you do manage to trap it, you should either hand it into Control or donate it to a reptile research facility. But don't sell it to some douche with 400 reptiles in his two bedroom apartment or even a reputable reptile dealer. Donate it to the cause. It's Florida, shouldn't be hard to find the right guy to hand it over to. Personally, I don't agree with the buying and selling of any animals.

Truth be told, a well established and reputable breeder that specializes in a particular species (because typically they do), on average will have far greater expertise than a researcher or wildlife management.

That's not to say that some herpetologists don't breed on the side, but most don't. And researchers don't focus on a species very often, they mainly look at a question and then find the best species to answer the question. A breeder may not know the ins and outs of its genetics or proteome (although many do to some degree), but they will have an intimate understanding of its life cycle and needs, that can only really come from that every day contact they have with the species.

The other alternative would be to contact the zoo and see if they have room for one in an exhibit, let it live the life of luxury. No worries about finding food, avoiding predators, all the mates it could ask for....

[Lucas]

The other alternative would be to contact the zoo and see if they have room for one in an exhibit, let it live the life of luxury. No worries about finding food, avoiding predators, all the mates it could ask for....

is there a facility like this that i can sign up for? specifically one with all the mates i could ask for.

[Syn7]

Truth be told, a well established and reputable breeder that specializes in a particular species (because typically they do), on average will have far greater expertise than a researcher or wildlife management.

That's not to say that some herpetologists don't breed on the side, but most don't. And researchers don't focus on a species very often, they mainly look at a question and then find the best species to answer the question. A breeder may not know the ins and outs of its genetics or proteome (although many do to some degree), but they will have an intimate understanding of its life cycle and needs, that can only really come from that every day contact they have with the species.

The other alternative would be to contact the zoo and see if they have room for one in an exhibit, let it live the life of luxury. No worries about finding food, avoiding predators, all the mates it could ask for....

My concern isn't with breeders in general, it's with breeders that sell to just anyone w/o making sure they are set up and responsible. I mean... if you can find a breeder who puts in the time and only sells to responsible enthusiasts, cool.

[SoCo KungFu]

My concern isn't with breeders in general, it's with breeders that sell to just anyone w/o making sure they are set up and responsible. I mean... if you can find a breeder who puts in the time and only sells to responsible enthusiasts, cool.

There's a lot of those unfortunately. We try to police them ourselves. I like to crash the local herp shows like repticon and you always see the same groups there. I like to hang out at their tent and cock block their sales by telling people exactly what they're buy and how in 4 years that tiny snake will be a 4 ft boa. Got to be subtle though because they've started kicking people out for that kind of stuff. Some of the herp societies used to give educational talks but they too have been removed from the presenter lists because they were advising caution, rather than boosting sales.

Unfortunately, this type of hobby attracts a largely libertarian group that don't seem to think that they should have to listen to anyone and do what they want. Environment be damned.

Also interesting, some of these snakes they can breed are some of the best examples of Mendelian genetics I've ever seen (google Piebald ball python). And not a one of them believe in evolution.... go figure.

[KungFubar]

is there a facility like this that i can sign up for? specifically one with all the mates i could ask for.

sort of... but you wouldnt like it there.

[-N-]

You're best bet would be the same as any other herp.

This is what worked when I was doing field work in zoology.

Make a noose out of dental floss or monofilament. Attach it to a long stick. Wait for early morning when the lizards come out to sun themselves. Move really really slowly to creep up on the lizard. If you don't startle it, it will stay where it is.

Gradually maneuver the noose towards the lizard and over its head, then snap the line up and yank it off its feet. When maneuvering the noose, you go like a quarter inch at a time, pause, then move again. Keep doing that until you get close enough and can snag your prey. Pretty much you have to go super slow and stalk your prey without spooking it. Pretty easy after you practice a bit.

[SoCo KungFu]

This is what worked when I was doing field work in zoology.

Make a noose out of dental floss or monofilament. Attach it to a long stick. Wait for early morning when the lizards come out to sun themselves. Move really really slowly to creep up on the lizard. If you don't startle it, it will stay where it is.

Gradually maneuver the noose towards the lizard and over its head, then snap the line up and yank it off its feet. When maneuvering the noose, you go like a quarter inch at a time, pause, then move again. Keep doing that until you get close enough and can snag your prey. Pretty much you have to go super slow and stalk your prey without spooking it. Pretty easy after you practice a bit.

Yeah there's lots of tricks like that. I know a researcher that used to tie rubberbands into figure 8's then snap them at racerunners he needed for a study, because knocking them out is the only way to catch them, there's a reason for that name.

But like I said, catching herps is more about how much effort you are willing to put out. I'd count this under the more effort category. Most people don't have the time to sit there trying to noose a lizard. Yours is a good idea, though. Its essentially a makeshift of some professional equipment some people use to capture much larger things like gators and such. Nice thing about it is, you don't have to get it around the neck. If it bites at the line defensively you can pull that up too so long as it doesn't sheer the floss.

But yeah, if he's willing to be active about it, there's lots of options. Another is to bend a coat hanger into a shaft with a Y at the end. Tie a thick rubber band at the Y. Bend the Y at an angle so you can reach out and it still faces the ground, wall or whatever. Then press down. The band will compress it against the grass long enough for you to grab it but won't crush it in the process.

Its funny the things you figure out how to rig up on the cheap when you have to do something like this. A guy I know doing his MS is doing his entire thesis project on a $250.00 budget. Lots of mesocosms made of plastic kiddy pools and a bit of screen to cover.

[Syn7]

Could you use a snare with a light trigger at the opening of it's lil cubby hole? Assuming you can find it, that is?

I know how to make a wicked snare. Pretty easy to teach if anyone is interested. I have caught tons of small animals with them in the past. Works really well with rabbits. Never tried it on a lizard tho.

[SoCo KungFu]

Could you use a snare with a light trigger at the opening of it's lil cubby hole? Assuming you can find it, that is?

I know how to make a wicked snare. Pretty easy to teach if anyone is interested. I have caught tons of small animals with them in the past. Works really well with rabbits. Never tried it on a lizard tho.

Can't say, honestly I've never had much luck with snaring much of anything really. The issue still is, finding the spot. It seems to me that snaring is about covering as much area as possible. I would think in this case, even a make shift glue trap would be more successful because at least it would provide some level of enticement in that it could provide a shelter.

You can buy the inserts. Built the box out of cardboard and line the outside with a black trashbag. Problem is FL is humid as hell and that deteriorates both the cardboard and breaks down the glue.

[Syn7]

So it would be like using badass flypaper outside it's hole or somewhere it chills in the sun?

[SoCo KungFu]

So it would be like using badass flypaper outside it's hole or somewhere it chills in the sun?

Same idea yeah, but supposedly this glue can be easily broken down by pouring vege oil over it, releasing whatever you caught. Basically you just try to put it someplace you suspect there to be activity. Which is for obvious reasons, more difficult to do outdoors.