Siu Lin tau

[Hendrik]

Jim,

From the history from the hung mun 1850,

Leung LAN Kwai himself is a Hung Mun Leader who is tightly related to the red boat opera and fine jade hall. He was pseudoname as NG Mui among other four other hung mun leaders in that era. These five people was pseudoname as the five elderly of shaolin in 1855. And as we can confirm today, in deed the burning of fine jade hall is pseudoname as the burning of shaolin in 1855 by the hung mun, since the hung mun record note has surfaced to public.

Lee man mau, yik kam, Leung LAN Kwai . law ancestor of snake crne wck are belongs to the same group of anti Qing people.

We can verify these people via the official Chinese history and hung mun records today.
We know WWB doesn't involve deep as these above guys in the uprising, thus . Leung jan can teach in public, right after the taiping uprising were destroy by Qing.

Same with the founder of Choy lee fut, chan heng, who train the taiping army, has to run away from china , wcners who involved in the uprising have to go hiding. But Leung Jan stay in the area and start teaching.

Hello Hendrik,

Thanks for sharing.

I understand Lee Man Mau is the Red Junk Uprising leader. When I say Wong Wah Bo was the "Dai Sihing" that would be of the Red Boat "Wing Chun" community.

We know Leung Jan was born in 1826. Wong Wah Bo more likely would have been older and was taught in Gulao since the age of 13 (pre Red Boat times). WWB later in life became a Red Boat member. The other Red Junk members would not have been exposed to the art of Wing Chun for many years later so this is why I call him the Dai Sihing..

Also, what type of martial art did Lee Man Mau practice? Were they our Crane cousins and later taught some WCK or were they two separate sect of the troupe woking together helping each other? Hung Mun always hire martial art experts/families to teach them some fighting. With so many people being from Hoksan it would make senses that one of the most wealthy & established martial art families in that region help them by teaching them Gongfu. If Leung Lon Kwai had family/friend on the Red Junk it would make sense that he was upset when it was burned down and help them by tweaking the art based on the needs of the time period...

Hope all is well!

Peace,
Jim


***

These red boat uprising people are closely tight in the 1850 era . These people are all hung mun member within the red boat opera group.

Lee man mau the leader of the red boat opera member , is from Heshan or crane mountain county , kulo is within Heshan.

Lee man mau joints with people in Nga Wu Poon Yee in the 1850s uprising. Nga Wu poon Yee is where the Cho family reside.
Where yik kam the opera actor later teaches cho family.
From the salutation of yik kam Wck and passed code we know they are indeed hung mun member and participate in the 1850 activity which match with the chinese official history.


these are traceable in the official Chinese history records such as in this attach photo.
So, we do know how likely is whether a story did happen in 1850. via these detail we can know who made up his- story and who is real deal.

[Hendrik]

K,

1. I agree with you.


2. one of the most important reason lead me to do the history research.

That is to identify the DNA of Wck and using that to turn on the slt engine. I want to see what it is and how it works.

Yes, we do have that technology to turn on the slt engine of Red boat wck today , due to the history research does aids us ,giving us a clear direction.

We know in details what, where, why ,how the technical elements of slt comes from.

As I have presented in very details in these two YouTube for the Asia pro Chinese martial art and history researchers or experts.


http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=uc3Jx...%3Duc3JxHO5q90

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=a4PD3...feature=relmfu



many think it is the history of my lineages or my theory I am trying to push.
Well, they missed my real point--- to have the key to turn on the slt engine.

As an analogy, BMW history is not the final goal but just one of the tool to guide to find the key to turn on the BMW . the key to turn on the BMW is the final goal. And we have it today.

So, people can come up with different clever way of try to debunk me ....such as the 911 consparacy YouTube...ect. But none contribute to turning on the slt engine to experience and develop it. There are copy cat since decade ago Wcml era using our ideas to create their his -story.... But they all missed my point. Finding the "Cinderella "is the key, history is a support.


So, per today, slt which is related to the red boat, such as the six YouTube from the six well known Wck family, can be turn on via having the software key DNA of Wck. Without has to change hardware. Because the hardware or movement doesn't evolve much and still stay within the ball park for past the 160 years. That is certain. The engine passed code has been cracked. That is the goal, and we have done it.


Thus, people can argue with all kind of theories on the history. But what is the use if they cant even see the original face of siu Lin tau.

Cinderella is the goal, for there is only one and one who fit the shoe of Cinderella.

The bottom line is , at the end of the day, wcners know the way of how slt practice develop the exactly wck skill.

Any kind of historical/anthropological research is to some extent based upon following hunches and theories and looking for data that fits together. Imagine trying to figure out what happened during a particular battle during the American Civil War 150 years ago. You may have written accounts based upon interviews with different survivors published in different newspapers of the time. You may find some elders who can related stories told to them by grandparents with first-hand knowledge of the battle. You may be able to visit the battlefield and look for artifacts and get the "lay of the land." From all of this you might be able to piece together the events of the actual battle. You take the common elements from several newspaper stories and interviews and have to assume those common elements are true since they appear in multiple sources. You look and see how those elements correspond with the known history of the time and area and how they correspond with the land features and other elements of the battle site. You might have to reject accounts from sources that aren't supported by other sources. It is not an exact science. But this isn't "cherry-picking" either. Hendrik has been doing something very similar. He has compiled various lineage "legends" and stories from multiple sources to look for the common elements. He has examined existing lineages of Wing Chun to look for the common elements. He has examined the known history in China that is related looking for where things fit. In any kind of research like this you have to have some kind of theory to guide your investigation, otherwise it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack. When you start finding plenty of things that overlap or "match", then you know you are on the right track. So I give Hendrik credit for this. His expression of his findings in English leaves a lot to be desired, but hopefully that will change in the future. I still think he needs to organize what he knows so far into one document in English with a good ghost-writer/proof-reader so we can all figure out exactly what he is talking about. I'm still a bit confused myself.

Now, just another thought. No one has yet bothered to try and answer my questions about HFY history.

[Hendrik]

I think things are much more complicated than that. Did Yip Man learn from Leung Bik or not? How can we ever know? This sort of question is repeated thousands of times in wing chun history. We cannot even know something this frequent in time yet we want to know what was going on in the red boat era. ---------


There is no relationship whatever between Ipman and Leung bik personal stories, with red boat era wing chun kuen history and facts.

It is this type of missed logic off target analogy mind set that was brought up, on and on and on.








I do not see how oral or written accounts of wing chun lore can be taken seriously. Even those are cherry picked and interpreted.

Hendrik's wing chun DNA is his creation to give his subjective conclusions based on limited cherry picked information weight.

His so called TCMA experts are not like anthropologists but are self appointed experts.

Put that all together and what do you ...------------



160 years of writing record and YouTube with varience of lineages and time presented a massive solid data.




Wcners follow the snake crane DNA one will find Cinderella to fit the shoe. That is what the wcners get. They can turn on their slt engine and develop it.

Called " cinderella found "as anything you like including cherry pick or cheft pick. The bottom line is Cinderella founded.





And what is the point of all this so called research? What does it matter in the slightest? For example does it matter if Yip Man learned from Leung Bik or not? What does it matter if HFY came from WWB or WWB came from HFY? It changes nothing.-------


If you don't clean your cup, you will not be able to drink fresh tea. And don't even know there is a Cinderella . Not to mention finding her. If you use a mis logic you end up confuse yourself.


Not to mention via red boat era history and slt DNA, we know exactly where ipman has evolved his snt set in details.

[Hendrik]

No one need to beg me.

Those who follow the process in my YouTube get result disregard of knowing me or not.

Just because ones mind set is trap within ego competition and put down others to make oneself feel good. Doesn't mean all human being is like that. If one were blind, don't expert everyone living is as blind as one.

The point is that everyone needs to watch Hendrik's clips and beg him to teach the internal aspects to really make their wing chun work. He will do this in a drip drip fashion over the course of 15 years as he thinks up new stuff and strings you along. You will never reach the end and it will be fiendishly complex

[kentchang]

The major problem with Hendrik's pie is that Yik Kam actually mixed his personal style with an Omei 12 palms animal chi gung exercise that only sets Yik Kam's art further apart from the real wing chun kung fu. That also explains why Hendrik was not able to defend himself from a low level test by a chi sim guy years ago according to a report I read. Omei chi gung would not help him develop his fighting skills. Besides Yik Kam, no other wc lineages went out of their way to learn Omei chi gung. When Hendrick keeps saying Yik Kam this, Yik Kam that ...what does this really mean to the wc community? Yik Kam SLT is just his personal style and has absolutely no wc DNA related to the original red boat wc kung fu like WWB and LYT. Has anyone ever seen any of these Omei DNA in Yip Man or other WC lineages? The answer is "NO".

I really think he does not see that. I can say that wing chun DNA is having three forms called SLT, CK, BJ and then a dummy. If you do not have that DNA you are not doing wing chun. What Hendrik does is therefore not wing chun. He can call it wing chun but by definition it is not since it does not have wing chun DNA.

[tc101]

No one need to beg me.

Those who follow the process in my YouTube get result disregard of knowing me or not.

Just because ones mind set is trap within ego competition and put down others to make oneself feel good. Doesn't mean all human being is like that. If one were blind, don't expert everyone living is as blind as one.

The Twin Towers people say the exact same thing that we who do not accept their conspiracy theory are blind and not concerned with the truth. Go read how they defend their views and you will see quite the parallel.

Please by all means put your stuff up on you tube just like the Twin Towers people do. If someone wants to follow that stuff they are welcome to as well. It is a free world and people can believe what they want. By the same token you and the Twin Towers people should know that there are many who do not accept your views and why.

You can dismiss us as having ego problems or willful blindness or whatever but that is not the case. I spent quite some time reading your posts past and present. I see all kinds of problems with your so called evidence, your assumptions, your conclusions, your arguments and so forth. I do not see how any independently thinking person could possibly accept what you say based on the substance of your views or how you present it.

[JPinAZ]

There is no relationship whatever between Ipman and Leung bik personal stories, with red boat era wing chun kuen history and facts.

Totally clueless - You have as little proof of this as anyone else.
Funny enough, Leung Bik's own realatives have said just opposite. But I'm sure they don't know anything either

It is this type of missed logic off target analogy mind set that was brought up, on and on and on.

That's how most view any 'information' you share on this forum..

[JPinAZ]

The major problem with Hendrik's pie is that Yik Kam actually mixed his personal style with an Omei 12 palms animal chi gung exercise that only sets Yik Kam's art further apart from the real wing chun kung fu. That also explains why Hendrik was not able to defend himself from a low level test by a chi sim guy years ago according to a report I read. Omei chi gung would not help him develop his fighting skills. Besides Yik Kam, no other wc lineages went out of their way to learn Omei chi gung. When Hendrick keeps saying Yik Kam this, Yik Kam that ...what does this really mean to the wc community? Yik Kam SLT is just his personal style and has absolutely no wc DNA related to the original red boat wc kung fu like WWB and LYT. Has anyone ever seen any of these Omei DNA in Yip Man or other WC lineages? The answer is "NO".

Great point. WC has nothing to do with animal kung fu.
And I heard the same report from several people - all of this talk from crazy man yet he fell right on his butt crying 'that's not wing chun!' with a simple move from chi sim guy. lol, now that's funny!

[Wayfaring]

Great point. WC has nothing to do with animal kung fu.
And I heard the same report from several people - all of this talk from crazy man yet he fell right on his butt crying 'that's not wing chun!' with a simple move from chi sim guy. lol, now that's funny!

To be fair Andreas Hoffman can probably dump the vast majority of this forum on their cans. BJJ black belt + his chi sim is pretty slick.

[tc101]

So says the village idiot.

You are better than that. Don't stoop to that level.

[Hendrik]

1. Since decade ago a group of people, due to not be able to defend their own history presentation , continuous to spread rumors on me trying to discredit me. Thinking that will discredit the history and DNA facts which I have presented. I fact after a decade, this group of people cannot present any Chinese official history , ancient martial art evidence to support their claim.

2. I have never engaged in kong sau or skill test in the west. As a public record. There are many who have visited me who knows my art and skill. Only those be able to tell you what is the facts of my art. I am not a superman and not perfect and not perfect fighter or best fughter in any means never claim that , however, only those who have meet me in serious Wck meeting and touch hand know my art and me.

3。 my report of finding in wck has been investigated by Asia Chinese martial art and history experts such as Gm Lee kong and many others in Asia , and Hong Kong cultural dept. those are the indication of merit or critics.




To the group of people who spread rumous and keep trying to discredit me like any politician to cover up facts. sorry, my research has reached the hand of the professional, the Vedic is theirs you can't influence it.

The major problem with Hendrik's pie is that Yik Kam actually mixed his personal style with an Omei 12 palms animal chi gung exercise that only sets Yik Kam's art further apart from the real wing chun kung fu. That also explains why Hendrik was not able to defend himself from a low level test by a chi sim guy years ago according to a report I read. Omei chi gung would not help him develop his fighting skills. Besides Yik Kam, no other wc lineages went out of their way to learn Omei chi gung. When Hendrick keeps saying Yik Kam this, Yik Kam that ...what does this really mean to the wc community? Yik Kam SLT is just his personal style and has absolutely no wc DNA related to the original red boat wc kung fu like WWB and LYT. Has anyone ever seen any of these Omei DNA in Yip Man or other WC lineages? The answer is "NO".

[JPinAZ]

You are better than that. Don't stoop to that level.

that was putting it nicely Ok, I fixed it to be more PC

To be fair Andreas Hoffman can probably dump the vast majority of this forum on their cans. BJJ black belt + his chi sim is pretty slick.

Fair enough! But, I'm willing to bet we could take that one further and say the majority of the people here could do the same to him.

Ahh, I guess I'm just tired of the non-stop BS from this guy. All talk and not a single bit of proof (either in real documentation OR in proven skills).
LOL, but then it IS the WC forum, I guess that's about par more often than not

[Hendrik]

Once one get the DNA of Wck in the red boat era, and get the DNA of different the red boat lineages,

It is a matter of DNA matching analysis.

You want to know about the facts of whether Ipman Leung Bik story ?
Just analyze the ipman Wck DNA to see what dna it matches.

As simple and direct as that.

The Twin Towers people say the exact same thing that we who do not accept their conspiracy theory are blind and not concerned with the truth. Go read how they defend their views and you will see quite the parallel.

Please by all means put your stuff up on you tube just like the Twin Towers people do. If someone wants to follow that stuff they are welcome to as well. It is a free world and people can believe what they want. By the same token you and the Twin Towers people should know that there are many who do not accept your views and why.

You can dismiss us as having ego problems or willful blindness or whatever but that is not the case. I spent quite some time reading your posts past and present. I see all kinds of problems with your so called evidence, your assumptions, your conclusions, your arguments and so forth. I do not see how any independently thinking person could possibly accept what you say based on the substance of your views or how you present it.

[JPinAZ]

Once one get the DNA of Wck in the red boat era, and get the DNA of different the red boat lineages,

It is a matter of DNA matching analysis.

You want to know about the facts of whether Ipman Leung Bik story ?
Just analyze the ipman Wck DNA to see what dna it matches.

As simple and direct as that.

lol, great theory.

First, one would have to even know wtf you are talking about with this DNA nonsense.
Second, if if you could figure the first out, you would have to know which 'version' of ipman wck to look at. There are many now-a-days, and everyone is doing something different. Compare LT VT to WSL line and you will see things are night and day in differences from the root up.
Third, with all of these differences now-a-days, and without a time machine, you will NEVER know what wck looked like in the times of say Wong Wah Bo to compare any of them too.

so, your talk of facts by looking at wck today is a joke and rather pointless. Maybe that's why you started looking at animal styles for your answers

[Hendrik]

Just because you don't know , does not apply to others.


For those of you, who is interested :


First,

One uses

Traditional Chinese martial art DNA , Official Chinese history, and hung mun anti Qing record to examine the wing chun kuen art, practice , passed code, history ...... Etc. from different red boat era Wck lineages. We have 160 years of data across time and many generation and cover different areas and residents location to do signal data processing to find the DNA. That is alot of stable data from different angle. Instead a single occurrence. Human and art evolution doesn't come out from thin air but has traces and tracks.

with that one will find the core Wck DNA and its mother art DNA.
With this DNA one will be able to activate the engine of snt effectively. Since one have found the " Cinderella ."


Then,
Continuous on,

One using the above information to further investigate the unique DNA of each different red boat era wing Chu lineage.

With these one will find unique DNA of different Wck lineages.


At this point one has the Wck core DNA and the unique DNA of different lineage. These has build up a data bank of DNA.


Then continuous,

One can further investigate the off spring of the red boat era Wck lineages, to gather more DNA.



At this point, things are clear.





For example,

if a lineages suddenly come to the picture and claim it is the oldest wing chun kuen of 1700 , one check if it match Wck core DNA. If It don't. We know they can't be what they claim.

Check again with the off spring Wck DNA. There one found it has an offspring DNA and mix with some other stuffs. There we know, it is an evolution or creation after this particular off spring.


Example 2,
If a person claim he learn the secret of Wck from WWB. But his Wck DNA match with YKS line. Then we also know what is the fact.


No rocket scientists or great lawyers needed, as in DNA technology. One don't have to have those clever argument to find the parent. Just do a DNA test.



For past three decades, I do the above investigating and build up DNA data based. It is not history or his-story as my major focus . But finding core dna and building DNA data based is my interest. DNA technology let us see clearly and honest.




Years ago, in this forum , I told sifu Sergio Black flag wing chun is a modern creation months before Sergio find out it indeed is. That is using the same DNA match scan as above. You know the DNA you know the parent . It is a patern recognition technology, not history speculation .

So why is it important to know the six core elements of snt? Because every element has a core DNA . In this black flag case, the body structure, the force change, the momentum handling core are all off.

lol, great theory.

First, one would have to even know wtf you are talking about with this DNA nonsense.
Second, if if you could figure the first out, you would have to know which 'version' of ipman wck to look at. There are many now-a-days, and everyone is doing something different. Compare LT VT to WSL line and you will see things are night and day in differences from the root up.
Third, with all of these differences now-a-days, and without a time machine, you will NEVER know what wck looked like in the times of say Wong Wah Bo to compare any of them too.

so, your talk of facts by looking at wck today is a joke and rather pointless. Maybe that's why you started looking at animal styles for your answers