That's very interesting, thanks!Originally Posted by Frost
The Progressive Boxer
That's very interesting, thanks!
pagan kickboxing taoist
many people get BJJ and wrestling confused. Reason, they have never done either. Wrestling is not a submission based system. There goal is takedown to pin.
What makes wrestling great in my book and different from BJJ on the ground is the movement. Wrestling teaches movement and how to capitalize upon the movement for position.
BJJ is submission from position based. Which in my book if you can blend the two you've got something.
Originally posted by BawangOriginally posted by Bawangi had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.
Registered User
Mmmmmmmmmm yes. Video = Mmmmmmmmmmm No.Things wrong with that video
1, sprawl with no forward pressure
2. sprawl while trying to keep hand on back of neck and grab wrist!
3. pummeling with elbows up
4. posture in pummeling
5. guy you love so much does a double, doesn't use momentum, tries to PICK UP THE LEGS... meaning he doesn't understand how the takedown really works
6. Showing leg takedowns with wrong hand placement, wrong head position etc
I could go on
This is the problem, people can go on youtbue and "fake it" to most people, but once you have studied real wrestling you learn how aweful most of the stuff on youtube really is
(. Y .)
watched the video again, this time all the way through - you guys are such curmudgeons. Again - I'll reiterate - it's not that bad.
My guess is the guy in white does some type of grappling - probably BJJ because his movements are in line with that type of training. His "non-shoot" is consistent with a baiana and he transitions to side control pretty instinctively in the short instance you see him do it around the 1:04 mark, and at the end the rolling set up is for a d'arce and that's something you wouldn't know to do without being showed. Without knowing the guy, I'd put him at least upper Blue - but he could be higher because like you guys point out, BJJ isn't known for its shoot takedowns.
I think he's cross training and the guy in red is his sifu, BUT, the guy in red has never done anything grappling related competitively because he's doing some non-realistic carryover from South East Asian inspired MA - things like the neck twist seem very Silat, or even Wing Chun to me and are relics of the slow, cooperative over-analyzing his student's grappling to find some kind of a counter from within the system thing that happens every now and again in traditional MA. And that does influence the guy in white because he showing some of that throughout the video and I bet he'd never do some of that in grappling competition.
Overall - I don't see any harm in this type of seminar - it's a basic introduction to grappling for non-grapplers. Learning the sprawl and pummel are good (the pummel they show with forehead to forehead isn't something I'm familiar with being Judo we were chest to chest, but I could see a BJJ guy doing it forehead to forehead because they come in that way when they set their grips).
Is it great? No, does it hurt you to learn it? No because no one at that seminar is anticipating the ADCC down the line, they're there to see very basic water down grappling.
Registered User
so you are ok with them learning inncorrect ways to pummel (eldows out and way too much distance on the swim) AND sprawl (hips up not down no pressure what so ever) right off the bat...really thats a good idea in your book to start of learning something substandard rather than learning the right way to do it from the get go??watched the video again, this time all the way through - you guys are such curmudgeons. Again - I'll reiterate - it's not that bad.
My guess is the guy in white does some type of grappling - probably BJJ because his movements are in line with that type of training. His "non-shoot" is consistent with a baiana and he transitions to side control pretty instinctively in the short instance you see him do it around the 1:04 mark, and at the end the rolling set up is for a d'arce and that's something you wouldn't know to do without being showed. Without knowing the guy, I'd put him at least upper Blue - but he could be higher because like you guys point out, BJJ isn't known for its shoot takedowns.
I think he's cross training and the guy in red is his sifu, BUT, the guy in red has never done anything grappling related competitively because he's doing some non-realistic carryover from South East Asian inspired MA - things like the neck twist seem very Silat, or even Wing Chun to me and are relics of the slow, cooperative over-analyzing his student's grappling to find some kind of a counter from within the system thing that happens every now and again in traditional MA. And that does influence the guy in white because he showing some of that throughout the video and I bet he'd never do some of that in grappling competition.
Overall - I don't see any harm in this type of seminar - it's a basic introduction to grappling for non-grapplers. Learning the sprawl and pummel are good (the pummel they show with forehead to forehead isn't something I'm familiar with being Judo we were chest to chest, but I could see a BJJ guy doing it forehead to forehead because they come in that way when they set their grips).
Is it great? No, does it hurt you to learn it? No because no one at that seminar is anticipating the ADCC down the line, they're there to see very basic water down grappling.
Troll Slayer
why bother learning something correctly, when you can just learn it half-arse... that's your motto?
It's just bad, period, get over it
Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253
(. Y .)
why bother learning something correctly, when you can just learn it half-arse... that's your motto?
It's just bad, period, get over it
look at the audience. It's consistent for the class - and if it inspires someone to go to a higher level training - all the better.
I'm not here to defend the video or the guys in the video - it's just that I don't see any harm in doing a seminar like that. It would be hard to come up with a lesson plan for non-grapplers to introduce them to grappling, but I see value in it if I was trying to drum up business for a grappling/Judo club.
Registered User
Come off it I can and have done a wrestling seminar for newbies its not that hard: you teach posture, elbows in head up hips under the head, you reinforce that posture by teaching correct pummeling: elbows in, digging for the underhook driving forward as you dig pushing of the back leg etc
look at the audience. It's consistent for the class - and if it inspires someone to go to a higher level training - all the better.
I'm not here to defend the video or the guys in the video - it's just that I don't see any harm in doing a seminar like that. It would be hard to come up with a lesson plan for non-grapplers to introduce them to grappling, but I see value in it if I was trying to drum up business for a grappling/Judo club.
Then teach proper sprawling: level change, hip to mat, then teach it with a partner statically, so they can learn the three s:stuff sprawl square up with the proper pressure
The issue isn’t what he taught, sprawling, head position pummeling is all good, its how he is doing it that’s the problem
Troll Slayer
right back at you
There is no excuse for teaching things wrong, NONE WHATSOEVER.... "hey this will only work if the other person can't actually wrestle, but hey you paid money for this crap"... that's really what you are defending here
[QUOTE=MightyB;1236251]
I'm not here to defend the video or the guys in the video -
[/QUOTE[]
BUT YOU ARE DEFENDING THEM
you don't see any harm in showing people martial arts techniques that don't actually work, and having them pay for it?
I teach people with zero wrestling base real wrestling 6 days a week
wow, what low ethics you have
Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253
(. Y .)
Vid please* or it didn't happen
LOL
I'm becoming quite the contrarian.
It's going to rain, these guys suck and guvment's going to take 'way my medcaid to give it to poor people! sumbich.
---
They aren't good 'tis true. I yield.
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Now give me my $5 for the concealed knife pic and you owe YKW $4.95 for the spiked ring lesson!
(. Y .)
Sadly, I've done worse! I'm 'Merican darnit and I likes money! Heck - I've made commercials for campaigns for some of the worst politicians and got's them elected. But it's the worst ones that pay the best!wow, what low ethics you have
(. Y .)
The Progressive Boxer
GM of Hadaka Korosu
The only anti-grappling there is, is when you KO the guy before he can get a hold of you.
The moment he has a grip, its grappling.
Period.
Look, all MA are specialized in one way or another nowadays.
Judo is ideal for throws and pins with jackets.
BJJ is ideal for ground submission with jackets.
Submission grappling is ideal for submission without jackets
Wrestling is ideal for takedowns and pins.
MT is ideal for striking AND clinch-striking.
Boxing is ideal for closed fist striking
Etc, etc, etc...
Every systems has its strong points AND its limitations.
Learn BOTH from someone that knows and you can deal with BOTH.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
The Progressive Boxer
Ameri Do Te > Anything else in history.
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