Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 30 of 30

Thread: Learn Offense 1st

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    in longfist, in almost every single application you are the attacker and throw the first punch. now think about all these demos u seen at tournaments. yes, they are all fake. mind blowing isn't it
    My mind is blown.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  2. #17

    That's an old video!

    I remember seeing it included in some skater video (I think) years ago. It's important to note that it was some dude twice the size of anyone in the group he was attacking starting sh!t because one of them called him a "skaterf@g". None of them had any desire or intention of fighting, so it was like blowing out candles for the dude that got amped. If you see the whole video, it includes commentary from the friends of the guy that started swinging, and they're laughing saying something along the lines of "all of a sudden, he takes his shirt off and goes nuts!"

    Not that those kids didn't have it coming, mind you....you shout insults at a guy twice your size, you buys your ticket and you takes your chances Anyway, the point being it doesn't always turn out like that if you throw the first punch against a group of four.

    That being said, I agree with offense>defense. Best to be the one setting the pace. To trust that you'll be able to sit there and defend indefinitely or until someone else breaks it up is a level of optimism that really has no place in a fight.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shell Beach, CA, USA
    Posts
    6,664
    Blog Entries
    16
    I believe most people train how to punch first before they train how to block. How do you know how to defense againt a "flying knee" if you don't even know what a "flying knee" suppose to look like? When you train with your partner, your partner has to know how to do a "flying knee" on you so you can train how to counter it. To be fair, if your opponent lets you to train your counter skill, you have to also let him to train the same counter skill. That mean you need to be able to perform "flying knee" as well.

    How can you teach how to counter BJJ if you don't even know what BJJ is?
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    DengFeng
    Posts
    1,469
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    I believe most people train how to punch first before they train how to block. How do you know how to defense againt a "flying knee" if you don't even know what a "flying knee" suppose to look like?....

    How can you teach how to counter BJJ if you don't even know what BJJ is?
    I know hundreds of moves most people have never seen before, Should you learn thousands of special counters, one for every move? No, it is too complicated. You know where your vital points are, these must be covered. First learn to shield so it hurts the opponent to hit you, like wearing spiked armour. After blocking, counters are very natural and easy.

    Of course it will be difficult to defend against special styles, like BJJ. But you have to prioritise at the beginning. Cover vital points, strike with 7 weapons, use tooth and nail when desperate.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shell Beach, CA, USA
    Posts
    6,664
    Blog Entries
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Should you learn thousands of special counters, ....
    What you are saying is true for the striking art. For the grappling art, it's much more complicate to talk about counter.

    In

    - striking art, you have no limitation in your mobility. You can move anyway you want to get away from that 1 point contact.
    - grappling art, your mobility is limited. Your body is controlled by 3 contact points. You can only move within your limitation.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    DengFeng
    Posts
    1,469
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    What you are saying is true for the striking art. For the grappling art, it's much more complicate to talk about counter.

    In

    - striking art, you have no limitation in your mobility. You can move anyway you want to get away from that 1 point contact.
    - grappling art, your mobility is limited. Your body is controlled by 3 contact points. You can only move within your limitation.
    This is true, but the grappling art is less of a danger to a civilian.

    Why? If you are a mugger, why would you risk grappling with me? It takes too long. Someone will intervene, especially if you are the bad guy.

    When two people fight with each other over pride then often they will grapple. But this type of fight is avoidable. When people fight because a predator attacks his prey it is unavoidable. In this fight the predator will not rush to grapple you, why would they? It is too dangerous for them. They will want to strike at you.

    Grappling is more defensive, it is the art you should learn yourself, to defend with, not so much to defend against. Of course we all need to be wary of a ground and pound but extended grappling works in the good guys favour, because it buys time and society will be on your side.

    So if grappling itself is defensive, why do we need to defend against it often? Only if we intend to attack someone. This happens if you are a bad person, or if you fight in a match, either way not as much of a problem for a civilian.

    I am all for practicing defending against grappling, but for a beginner I think defending against strikes is the number one priority.
    Last edited by RenDaHai; 06-27-2013 at 11:20 PM.

  7. #22
    Greetings,


    "but the grappling art is less of a danger to a civilian"

    1001% UNTRUE.

    Do you think that the women who got raped were boxed into submission?


    mickey

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    22,250
    Best defense is a good offence.
    What does that mean?
    Simple:
    The opponent can't beat you when he is too busy trying to survive.
    Offense means controlling the fight, it means ACTING and not REACTING.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    526
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    What's your opinion on this?
    Strike first, strike hard, no mercy, sir!

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Midgard
    Posts
    10,852
    "You can ensure the safety of your defense if you only hold positions that cannot be attacked. "

    "Numerical weakness comes from having to prepare against possible attacks; numerical strength, from compelling our adversary to make these preparations against us."

    Sūn Wǔ


    Harken, friends.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin View Post
    Strike first, strike hard, no mercy, sir!

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shell Beach, CA, USA
    Posts
    6,664
    Blog Entries
    16
    Old Chinese saying said, "出手见红(Chu Shou Jean Hong) - you have to see something red if you decide to fight".

    - It's better to kill than to be killed.
    - It's better to hurt others than to be hurt.
    - A good enemy is a dead enemy.
    - If you don't want to get punched, punch back.
    - If you just play defense, even a 10 years old kid can hit you soon or later.
    - To allow your body to be used as someone's punching bag is dis-respect to your parent who gave your body.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-28-2013 at 02:09 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  13. #28
    This is a discussion since the beginning of people on the planet earth.

    There is an old story.

    The weapon merchant said he has the best spear (offense) for sale.

    He also said that he sells the best shield (defense).

    What if he used his best spear against his best shield ?

    Mao (spear) and Dun (shield).

    Offense first

    Defense first

    Or a bit of both first.

    My point is that we always have to consider offense and defense of our moves at the same time.

    It is like yin and yang.

    We may not consider one over the other.

    We consider and practice both at the same time.


  14. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    DengFeng
    Posts
    1,469
    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,


    "but the grappling art is less of a danger to a civilian"

    1001% UNTRUE.

    Do you think that the women who got raped were boxed into submission?


    mickey
    That is indeed true. I think there are specialist classes for rape defence. I don't know about that and wouldn't try to teach it.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    DengFeng
    Posts
    1,469
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Best defense is a good offence.
    This is often bandied about. It applies in a situation where the only way to win is to destroy the opponent. Then it is logical. However this is very rarely the situation we are faced with and so it is not a good maxim.

    @SPJ,

    I agree, they should be yin and yang and together.

    @Everyone,

    I am not saying no offense, no counter. I am saying you don't need to be taught how to hurt someone, that is natural and easy. Just follow your instincts. You DO need to be taught how to defend well.

    Of course you should counter attack, but in terms of OP, what we learn first, that should be defence.

    Most people have a psychological barrier to hitting someone. No one has a barrier to raising their hands to block.

    Think back to the last time someone hit you... Was your first reaction to hit them back or to put your hands up and asess the situation? I think a lot of people are in the second category, if you are, then learn defence first. If you are the good guy, you are not going to throw the first punch. So it makes sense to learn defence first.


    Teach what is teachable, the rest is wasting time.
    Last edited by RenDaHai; 06-28-2013 at 09:13 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •