Is anyone else paying attention to the YMAA Retreat Center program?

[lkfmdc]

He actually is teaching them about business. And considering that Dr. Yang built one of the biggest TCMA empires in America single-handed, he has a lot to say about that aspect.

I am glad to hear he doing that, though my caveat that the industry is changing is still valid

recent business conference noted that some of the "big names" of the 1980's and 1990's went out of business or were doing badly in the "modern age"

As I already said, knowing Yang a bit, I'd say he is sincere, but it is a bit of a fantasy camp

[Kymus]

Looks like ten year long after school program for kids? This is most definitely a fantasy camp nothing more.

How do you come to this conclusion? The guys there train their @sses off 6 days a week and you compare this to an after-school program for kids? That makes no logical sense.

[Kymus]

Umm wait. I have a question. Did he initially front the money for all the land and structures? Because if he didn't, he found a perfect way to use donation to build himself the perfect retirement home.

Even if he breaks even and the project fails, if all property and assets are under his name then he comes out golden.

Word is that Dr. Yang invested all of his savings in to the RC. If it can't break even after the 10 year program is over, he's going to sell it.

[lkfmdc]

How do you come to this conclusion? The guys there train their @sses off 6 days a week and you compare this to an after-school program for kids? That makes no logical sense.

I compare it to a fantasy camp because you don't need to live like that to learn kung fu, and the value of living like that is really questionable to begin with

I question separating yourself from the real world for 5 to 10 years to MAYBE have a school... considering the industry has SHRANK 50% in the last 10 years, what if it dosn't work out for you?

For every Yang, there are at least 50 guys whose schools closed

[Kymus]

I compare it to a fantasy camp because you don't need to live like that to learn kung fu, and the value of living like that is really questionable to begin with

Well, no, you don't have to live in the mountains, but that's where the land is, right? I mean, the goal is to produce students that get a full transmission of the arts and the knowledge behind them along with a high level of physical skill. What would you suggest as an alternative?

Yeah, you don't have to learn horseback riding, projectile weapons, or music, but Dr. Yang feels that these are important skills. I guess he feels it important to temper their souls (for lack of a much better, not-so-wish-washy word) and make/mold them in to genuine people.

I guess it's up to what else other than Kung fu one feels is important to learn.

I question separating yourself from the real world for 5 to 10 years to MAYBE have a school... considering the industry has SHRANK 50% in the last 10 years, what if it dosn't work out for you?

We'll see how it goes. I'm optimistic since they're being taught business and they're given money to start their school. We'll see.

I guess we have different definitions of what is a "fantasy". When I call something a fantasy, I use it to mean that it's not real. What you're saying is that they may not be successful in business (you also mentioned that there are other ways to learn, but I don't know if you mean "learn good Kung Fu" in general, or to have a (again, pardon the wishy-washy-ness here) complete transmission of knowledge).

[IronFist]

I'm pretty sure that's because they don't have a lot of time during the week for phone calls. I've never read anything about them being somehow discouraged from talking to anyone (you can reply to any of their blog posts, and they'll reply back). One of the disciples mentioned how there isn't a lot of free time to do things, and I assume that when there is free time, just just want to rest because they're probably tired and sore as he!!.

I'm not talking about talking to people on the internet. I'm talking about going out and interacting with real people without being weird so that when prospective students come to your school after you graduate you don't drive them away by being awkward.

Chatting with people online is a form of communication but it is not a replacement for actual social interaction. Just ask all the basement dwellers who have social anxiety.

If the only people they are talking to is each other, they're going to be awkward when they rejoin the real world. Are they learning how to talk to women? Are they learning how to not be weird? Are they learning how to have fun and not be serious all the time? Can they talk about anything other than kung fu?

Unless you are a huge introvert nerd who writes software that makes a ton of money, a large part of your success in life is related to how you get along with others. At job interviews, do they like you? If you're running your own school, do your students like you? etc.

Please note none of this may even be an issue with this program. I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying it sounds like there is minimal social interaction with outsiders, especially since the application asks you if you can reduce contact with friends and family, and that's not necessarily a good thing even if you learn great kung fu in the process.

I have had several experiences with Yang like this, he means well but isn't that connected to reality....

Details?

I compare it to a fantasy camp because you don't need to live like that to learn kung fu, and the value of living like that is really questionable to begin with

While I think this thing is a cool idea for hardcore students, I tend to agree with your statement.

They are being immersed in something that may not have that much actual real world value, and in the process may be missing out on things that may have more value.

I'm not saying kung fu is useless or a waste of time. I'm saying spending 33 hours a week (I think that's what the website said) training may be a bit much and probably does not have a linear payoff.

If they are going to open a kung fu school, then yes, this is probably a good way to prepare.

I question separating yourself from the real world for 5 to 10 years to MAYBE have a school...

Agreed.

[lkfmdc]

Details?

Dr Yang's original art is Fukien White Crane. I am sure most people know already that Fukien White Crane is in NO WAY related to Tibetan Pak Hok or the Lama and Hop Ga lineages

When Yang first "made public" his Fukien White Crane training, he understandably also published articles about it.... What was inexplicable (to us especially) was he would then throw into those articles what was purported to be history of the Tibetan / Lion's Roar / Si Jih Hao lineages

The material was not only inaccurate, it was downright bizarre! He had our si-gung living 200 years earlier than he did, he had him training at Shaolin Temple in Henan, etc etc etc

It was just flat out WRONG, and several letters were written to the magazine that published them pointing out the mistakes.

I know for a fact that Yang read these letters and was made aware that the Pak Hok, Hop Ga, Lama Pai and Tibetan lineages were not happy with these articles. Yet, even after this, he continued to republish the same incorrect material

I had an opportunity to sit down with Yang at one of Jeff Bolt's events. He was always pleasant and we sat down at one of the tables in that huge lobby in the convention center part of the hotel where the tables for vendors were set up.

I asked him why he was publishign history of TIBETAN pak hok when his art was Fukien White Crane... he said with great sincerity that he believed he should educate the public on all aspects of TCMA

To me it was illogical, it wasn't his area, but I do believe he believed he was doing a good thing

I noted to him that his "version" was not only in contrast with the histories of the Si Jih Hao lineages, it was just plain WRONG... We knew exactly when our si-gung lived. And if he had lived 200 years earlier he wouldn't have been our si-gung!

Yang seemed rather perplexed by the conversation at this point, he had a source he claimed! I asked him his soruce and he said something in Mandarin that I didn't quite catch, so I asked him "what is that"

And, I swear to G'd this is what he said, that it was a soap opera that had run on Taiwanese TV....

I asked him why (1) he'd take a soap opera as a legit source of info and (2) why he would think it is better info than the information carried by the actual lineage holders???

He didn't answer me, but he did stop publishing that "history" of our si-gung

[Kymus]

I'm not talking about talking to people on the internet. I'm talking about going out and interacting with real people without being weird so that when prospective students come to your school after you graduate you don't drive them away by being awkward.

Well they teach classes for locals and it seems like every once in a while someone flies in there to train with them. They also go with Dr. Yang to teach seminars.

Do they go out and socialize? I have no idea. They're certainly free to do so, but I'd imagine that they're too d@mn tired to do so.

Every year they go back home for summer break.

If the only people they are talking to is each other, they're going to be awkward when they rejoin the real world.

I really don't think this will be a problem. Call me naive, but I don't think they're as separated from the world as everyone thinks they are. They go shopping, they talk to students, they can do whatever they want in their free time, they go home for a few months every year, they train with people from other places, etc.

Are they learning how to talk to women?

Doubtful. But Michelle visited a handful of times before signing up for the 5yr program. She wasn't scared off by them, so I guess they're not creepers or nothing. But as for their ability to meet women? Who knows.

Are they learning how to not be weird?

They were at the recent Tiger Claw tournament. I'm fairly certain that Gene's spoken to a few of them.

Are they learning how to have fun and not be serious all the time?

From their videos and their blogs it seems like they not serious all the time.

[Kymus]

Ross, I'm curious if you feel that there are many other errors Dr. Yang makes when talking about history? I'm curious, since he does talk and write about it a lot, I believe.

[lkfmdc]

Ross, I'm curious if you feel that there are many other errors Dr. Yang makes when talking about history? I'm curious, since he does talk and write about it a lot, I believe.

I know that he has taken stuff written in Chinese sources, translated it, published it and not cited the original sources... understandable if you get his "world view" about making as much available to the world as possible...

I have heard rumblings about issues with those he worked with on past projects, but just rumblings

[Kymus]

I see, so at best, what he talks about as history may not necessarily be from personal research and it may not be from first hand accounts (ie: something his teacher taught him).

Thanks

[IronFist]

I really don't think this will be a problem. Call me naive, but I don't think they're as separated from the world as everyone thinks they are.

Cool.

Yeah, I didn't want to imply anything but it kind of has a feeling of "no contact with the outside world training 24/7 for 10 years" which I don't think would be a good thing, although I think some kung fu students would be interested in that.

[Lucas]

The true value of a project like this is measured only within oneself. If the student finds value, and continues to find value, that is all that really matters. If they are not concerned with the 'issues' people on this forum have brought up, that completely voids the argument as to whether their efforts are worthwhile or not.

As the saying goes; 'one mans trash is another mans treasure.'

[Kymus]

The true value of a project like this is measured only within oneself. If the student finds value, and continues to find value, that is all that really matters. If they are not concerned with the 'issues' people on this forum have brought up, that completely voids the argument as to whether their efforts are worthwhile or not.

As the saying goes; 'one mans trash is another mans treasure.'

[lkfmdc]

The true value of a project like this is measured only within oneself. If the student finds value, and continues to find value, that is all that really matters. If they are not concerned with the 'issues' people on this forum have brought up, that completely voids the argument as to whether their efforts are worthwhile or not.

As the saying goes; 'one mans trash is another mans treasure.'

..........