Legal Self Defense Questions

[Sihing73]

Hello,

Figure I would chime in, FWIW.

Laws vary from State to State and even from Jurisdictions within states so there is no one answer which would be 100% correct in all circumstances.

However, in the scenario presented where a person has stepped in front of your vehicle and others are attempting to open the doors;

I would say that you would be more than justified in driving away and even hitting the person attempting to block your egress. But, keep in mind that you are in a vehicle which outweighs the others by over 1,000 pounds so you do not need to drive very fast nor hit them with a great deal of force. You can simple continue moving forward at a steady rate of speed and if the guy does not move you will move him. As for legal justification, as long as you can convincingly state you feared for your safety you would most likely not have any problems. If you are a woman then you can get away with things even further.

Keep in mind that people have argued, successfully, in court for not stopping for marked police cars until they got into a residential area due to all of the police imposters out there now. So do you honestly think that a jury would convict someone who could show they were in fear of their life and drove away from a potentially dangerous situation?

Here is my disclaimer

While I am not an attorney I have been in court numerous times. I have worked as a Police Officer, PA State Trooper and am currently working for the GA Department of Public Safety. In all instances where you need to obtain an accurate opinion regarding the legality of any given situation you should contact an attorney whose practice focuses on the area in question. You could also try contacting the local prosecutors office but they will most likely not give legal advice and also refer you to an attorney.

[Lucas]

If i had a person blocking my path and a group of others trying to get in and hurt me, not only would i run that fukker down, but i would throw it in reverse and make sure the job was done, hopefully taking out a few of the other ass holes too. If no one can id u or lead to any solid tracking evidence, then u wont have any legal issues to worry about.

[Jimbo]

If i had a person blocking my path and a group of others trying to get in and hurt me, not only would i run that fukker down, but i would throw it in reverse and make sure the job was done, hopefully taking out a few of the other ass holes too. If no one can id u or lead to any solid tracking evidence, then u wont have any legal issues to worry about.

But there most likely would be evidence left behind, at the scene and/or on the car; paint residue, pieces of headlight/tail lights: blood/hair/dents, etc., on the car. IMO, your best bet would be to simply drive through them and keep going, then report it immediately. That way, you're more likely to be viewed as the good guy in the matter, which you are, if you were in fear for your life.

[YouKnowWho]

i would throw it in reverse and make sure the job was done,...

When I was in The Univ. of Kansas at Lawrece, my friends and I were driving in Kansas City at night in some dark alley. Suddently a group of local gangs ran toward our car. We stopped, put car in reverse, drove back for more than 300 yards, and turned. This sound the most logical solution IMO.

[Kymus]

If i had a person blocking my path and a group of others trying to get in and hurt me, not only would i run that fukker down, but i would throw it in reverse and make sure the job was done, hopefully taking out a few of the other ass holes too. If no one can id u or lead to any solid tracking evidence, then u wont have any legal issues to worry about.

I would expect no less of you, Lucas!

[GoldenBrain]

This thread reminds me of one of my favorite quotes. "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." I think it's always wise to exercise your right to self preservation.

[YouKnowWho]

Sometime when people concern too much about legal issue, they may forget that their life is most important. You just don't want to finally realize this when you are in heaven.

[Syn7]

If there was a heaven, I wouldn't really worry about it. Why hold onto pain when you can just move on to bliss.


The will to survive runs deep!

[pazman]

When I was in The Univ. of Kansas at Lawrece, my friends and I were driving in Kansas City at night in some dark alley. Suddently a group of local gangs ran toward our car. We stopped, put car in reverse, drove back for more than 300 yards, and turned. This sound the most logical solution IMO.

Mr. Wang, stop trying to push this "common sense" stuff on us.

[KungFubar]

When I was in The Univ. of Kansas at Lawrece, my friends and I were driving in Kansas City at night in some dark alley. Suddently a group of local gangs ran toward our car. We stopped, put car in reverse, drove back for more than 300 yards, and turned. This sound the most logical solution IMO.

Two boys were walking to school one morning in small town USA. One boy said to the other, "Billy what would you do if we were suddenly attacked by a Tiger?" Billy says "I would shoot him with a rocket launcher". The other boy says "Where did you get the rocket launcher?" Billy says "the same place where you got the tiger".

[Drake]

the neighborhood block watch captiain maintaining visual contact with someone while he waits for the cops to come so he can give them an exact location does not constitute vigilante. If anyone is paranoid about monsters under their bed its you thinking the neighborhood block watch captain zimmmerman is some kind of racist pedophilic vigilante. put the koolaid down. Get serious.

If someone is stalking me with a gun, there's a problem.

[SoCo KungFu]

my info comes from the trial that Ive been watching not from biased obsolete left wing media reports. for the record the 911 operator that you refer to was actually the NON emergency operator it wasnt 911 did not tell him to not follow, they said "You dont need to do that". quite a difference.

If you watch the trial you will see the director of the neighborhood watch program who works for law enforcement testify that he was the captain of the neighborhood watch and she commended him on what he did. Go watch it before you continue to embarrass yourself with biased obsolete information. aka koolaid.

additionally SYG is a non issue because he is not using that as a defense. His defense is simple self defense. They are not using the stand your ground law as a defense.

It seems you do not even know the basics of this case. Get yourself updated on the facts

Also, I did say that I acknowledge that TM was not doing anything wrong. he had all the right. He was reported for suspicious behavior. Heres what you do, get dressed up in a hoodie, wear your pants down past your ass, then at night go walking aimlessly around an a bank, or a mall parking lot, or an apartment complex especially a gated one and see how long it takes for the cops to show up and inform you that you are acting suspicious.

Zimmerman kept his distance and when he lost visual contact with TM he turned around and walked back to his car, on his way back he was ambushed by TM, thats what got him killed, thats why its justifiable homicide because he bashed his head on the concrete. and no that wouldnt count as SYG for TM.

So by your logic, its ok to instigate an aggressive situation so long as right before the person defends themselves, you turn around and go back? "Sorry guys, I'm done playing now. Honest, I wasn't REALLY going to shoot you. See I'm walking back now."

Retarded. If I'm in a position and I feel like I have a better chance of survival by taking out the threat that now has his guard down, than trying to stay hidden or make a break for it, then I'm going to take out the threat that now has his guard down. Simple survival.

Even non emergency dispatch get training on crisis situation advising numbnuts, you know, because non emergencies can become emergencies real quick like that. That, "you don't need to do that" is a polite way of saying you're doing something stupid. And the result is what we see here. Sorry your over bloated cowboy attitude is too much to allow you to see the operator was predicting exactly what happened.

And no, Zim chased him on foot. His out of shape ass was panting to dispatch.

SYG is most definitely relevant, and I already mentioned Zim wasn't invoking it. Learn to read. I specifically stated, what he was INITIALLY going to invoke in defense. Your comment is still evading the issue. A law doesn't become null and void simply because we choose not to invoke it. I give fuck all about Zimmerman. This is about Martin. Martin is dead, he can't make a choice. Why is Martin not protected by a law on the books. Zim can go **** himself with whatever defense he chooses. This is about Martin and HIS threat of harm. All the law requires is

A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm

. Yeah, some ******* follows me in their car, gets out and begins chasing me down a street on foot. I'm going to "presume imminent peril."

See this is where people like you show your colors. If we live in a country where innocence is presumed until found guilty, Martin is innocent. And since Martin is not on trial, he must always be considered innocent until such proof is available that he was in progress of breaking a law. And since walking down the street, even with a hoodie, even with his pants on the ground, is not illegal (as much as idiots like you like to seem to think that's grounds for suspicion). So again, someone present a rational argument as to why SYG does not protect Martin.

[Syn7]

Heres what you do, get dressed up in a hoodie, wear your pants down past your ass, then at night go walking aimlessly around an a bank, or a mall parking lot, or an apartment complex especially a gated one and see how long it takes for the cops to show up and inform you that you are acting suspicious.

It's pretty sad that you don't see how fucked up that really is.


American Anthropological Association




Do these people perpetuate "gangster" culture too?

I'm just curious... Is it the jeans and the sweatshirt that is gangster? Or is it the jeans and sweatshirt combined with the black that does it?

When you walk to the store, do you choose your clothing carefully so that you don't get shot?

And how is going for a walk suspicious? Or is it going for a walk in a hoodie/w jeans that does it? Or is it going for a walk in a hoodie w/ jeans and being black that makes it suspicious?

Think it through.

[sanjuro_ronin]

As much as I disagree with racial profiling, it tends to be more effective than less.
Sad but true.
One of the first things we were taught in "counter-terrorism" classes in the military was, sadly, racial profiling.
It is one of the most common and effective tools used in airports in the countries that have a history of STOPPING terrorist attacks on planes.

Sad comment on society though.

[Syn7]

Yeah, but at what cost? We have all seen this movie before and it never ends well.

The age old debate: Security vs Liberty. Can we have one w/o the other? Where is the balance?


IMO, airport security is more about the illusion of security. So you can't bomb a plane, so what? Walk into a school. Can't do that? Walk into a mall. Can't do that? Go to a ball game. Can't do that....

Where does it end. Ya know? What does this teach us? What does racial profiling teach us, whether it works or not?

Obviously these are not easy questions. But when do we do the right thing and when do we do the smart thing? When does the right thing become the smart thing? When does the smart thing become destructive?

There is a huge difference between managing a war and managing a civilian population in peacetime. We don't use soldiers to police citizens. Why? Because soldiers fight the enemy and we don't want ourselves to become the enemy.

Personally, I'm willing to take a fair amount of risk to preserve liberties.

Does profiling a teen to prevent petty theft justify shitting on the liberties of so many innocent people? Is criminal racial profiling the same as racial profiling in counter terrorism? And what happens next? What about Chechens? What about all the white, suit and tie cats that are willing to do harm for islam? Do we check you because your nose is too big? Skin too dark? This may work, but in the end you are pissing on the liberties of SO SO SO many more people that have done nothing wrong, will do no harm, and just wanna take care of their fam and live life in peace. This isn't a color thing, it's a culture thing. Xenophobia is a sickness.

White privilege, it's great when you are white... To not be seen as a threat. As a criminal. As a drain on the economy. I have no issue with a comprehensive program used to prevent harm, but there are limits. And while you may have had proper training, there are a million Zimmermans to every one of you who hear you say that and take matters into their own inept hands. Choose your words wisely when you say stuff like that. Make the point that you have received extensive training and that it should be left to the professionals. And that isn't to say the professionals do no wrong. They do plenty wrong, but at least they have the proper training, whether you agree with it or not.