Gary Lam interview

[BPWT]

Interesting interview with Gary Lam.

http://wingchungeeks.com/gary-lam-interview/

Some interesting info on WSL, and also on how long it takes to learn the system and why WSL changed the knife form he learned from Yip Man.

Plus, a misunderstanding on back weighting footwork

Lots of points for discussion! LOL

Dig in, and kick off...


Edit: MP3 download, or there's a transcript if you scroll down...

Edit 2: A month or so back, they had a really good interview with Sifu Sergio (just saying).

[tc101]

Thanks. More interesting stuff.

[BPWT]

Any thoughts on why Yip Man taught the knives so slowly?

Any thoughts on the points Gary Lam made about learning the system?

"If you want to have a modern comparison, it would honestly take someone roughly 32 years to truly complete the system of Wing Chun. To us, even if you learn the entire knives form and all the drills, that is still just level three. There is a lot more to Wing Chun afterwards."

[guy b.]

Gary Lam seems to be saying that WSL taught less traditionally than Yip Man who apparently went to ridiculous extremes. He is also claiming that he himself teaches less traditionally and more systematically than WSL. I don't think this is controversial?

The current state of wing chun is a testament to the way Yip Man taught. In general WSL has achieved much more consistent results than his own teacher. Whether Gary Lam goes further still is open for debate.

From this account it sounds like Yip Man took ages over the knives and taught different things to different people because he didn't trust anyone and because this was a typical teaching style of the time. Seems a bit of a silly thing to do in retrospect.

[Graham H]

Gary Lam seems to be saying that WSL taught less traditionally than Yip Man who apparently went to ridiculous extremes. He is also claiming that he himself teaches less traditionally and more systematically than WSL. I don't think this is controversial?

This is strange as GL system does not resemble WSL's one bit. In fact most of it is rubbish IMO. GL and WSL did not see eye to eye and there was a riff that formed if rumors are to be believed. GL has his own ideas and I was told by somebody in Hong Kong that even in WSL's class when GL was an assistant he was teaching things that WSL did not like. Later GL opened his own school down the road.

The current state of wing chun is a testament to the way Yip Man taught. In general WSL has achieved much more consistent results than his own teacher. Whether Gary Lam goes further still is open for debate.

This could be true.

From this account it sounds like Yip Man took ages over the knives and taught different things to different people because he didn't trust anyone and because this was a typical teaching style of the time. Seems a bit of a silly thing to do in retrospect.

Also possibly true and could explain why only several people are known for getting more of his attention than others. Who knows? The argument has been raging since the early 70's.

[tc101]

Gary Lam seems to be saying that WSL taught less traditionally than Yip Man who apparently went to ridiculous extremes. He is also claiming that he himself teaches less traditionally and more systematically than WSL. I don't think this is controversial?

What do you mean by ridiculous extremes?

The current state of wing chun is a testament to the way Yip Man taught.

I do not know what you mean by current state of wing chun. Yip Man is not responsible for wing chun since there are very many that do not come from his lineage and it is not like those people are doing notably better or that other styles of TCMA are doing better than wing chun.

In general WSL has achieved much more consistent results than his own teacher.

This depends on what you mean by results. If you mean conformity in forms and drills and that sort of thing I might agree. Whether that is a good thing is open to debate I think.

[tc101]

This is strange as GL system does not resemble WSL's one bit. In fact most of it is rubbish IMO. GL and WSL did not see eye to eye and there was a riff that formed if rumors are to be believed. GL has his own ideas and I was told by somebody in Hong Kong that even in WSL's class when GL was an assistant he was teaching things that WSL did not like. Later GL opened his own school down the road.

I am beginning to understand you now. Rubbish to you is anything that does not conform to PB ideas. That is a very narrow and self limiting view. GL brought his own experiences into his and I emphasize HIS wing chun and this is how it should be. PB likewise has his own wing chun based on his experience. I understand that GL fought in the infamous wing chun Thai match for example. He was with WSL for a fairly long time wasn't he?

[KPM]

I am beginning to understand you now. Rubbish to you is anything that does not conform to PB ideas. That is a very narrow and self limiting view. GL brought his own experiences into his and I emphasize HIS wing chun and this is how it should be. PB likewise has his own wing chun based on his experience. I understand that GL fought in the infamous wing chun Thai match for example. He was with WSL for a fairly long time wasn't he?

This thread is a perfect example of a point I made in the "is SLT practical" thread. There is no such thing as "authentic", "100% genuine", "Yip Man" Wing Chun. That died with Yip Man. So all of the posts we have seen stating that "so and so" is not real "Yip Man" Wing Chun are rather silly. For someone to say they can look at someone's SLT and know whether it is "true Yip Man Wing Chun" is rather ridiculous. Are they talking about Yip Man in his early years? Or Yip Man in is later years when he is suffering from cancer? Are they talking about what Yip Man showed to his more mature students with an intellectual bent and experience in other martial arts? Or what he showed to his young 17 year old students who wanted to bang? This thread is a perfect of example showing that what Yip Man himself taught throughout different stages of his career or to different types of students was not a consistent standard. WSL put his own interpretation and understanding into what YM taught him. GL and PB both put their own interpretation and understanding into what WSL taught them. Graham has also likely put his own interpretation and understanding into what PB taught him. Now for someone that has established a systematic curriculum and taught it consistently to all of their students, variations are going to be far smaller. So I would think it is possible to look at what WSL's students are doing and note WSL-specific things and know it is his system. But already we have in this discussion a debate as to whether one of WSL's direct students is still doing WSL's Wing Chun or not. With Yip Man's Wing Chun we are now several generations removed. How many variations are going to creep into "100% authentic genuine" Yip Man Wing Chun in 2 generations? Or three? Anyway, just thought I would take this opportunity to reinforce the idea that being so darn dogmatic and religious about who is doing their Wing Chun "right" or "wrong" is somewhat silly. Not targeting anyone in this thread.....just saying.

[Graham H]

I am beginning to understand you now. Rubbish to you is anything that does not conform to PB ideas. That is a very narrow and self limiting view. GL brought his own experiences into his and I emphasize HIS wing chun and this is how it should be. PB likewise has his own wing chun based on his experience. I understand that GL fought in the infamous wing chun Thai match for example. He was with WSL for a fairly long time wasn't he?

Understand me? No you're not! You don't even know me!

FWIW you are wrong. There are many people in VT that I have met other than PB that are good and their ideas make sense. For me though WSLPB ideas are second to none.

GL makes the same mistakes many others make. They think that because you are good at chi sau they can fight. It's people like that who show their true colors when they come against somebody who wont do what they want. This was proved a little while ago where GL was concerned. I have a friend who was with GL for years.

As for PB he's different. No chi sau. He fights you and you know. Simple. No f**king around. Prior to PB all me previous Teachers did was try and tie me up in knots and I fell for it.

BTW VT is not Thai Boxing so what GL did then I don't think about.

[Graham H]

..........and it doesn't make any difference how long GL was with WSL just like it doesn't make no odds how long some people were with Ip Man himself. The relationship between teacher and student and information shared is what is important not time frames.

[tc101]

Understand me? No you're not! You don't even know me!

FWIW you are wrong. There are many people in VT that I have met other than PB that are good and their ideas make sense. For me though WSLPB ideas are second to none.

GL makes the same mistakes many others make. They think that because you are good at chi sau they can fight.

Really? Where was that in the interview?

It's people like that who show their true colors when they come against somebody who wont do what they want. This was proved a little while ago where GL was concerned. I have a friend who was with GL for years.

As for PB he's different. No chi sau. He fights you and you know. Simple. No f**king around. Prior to PB all me previous Teachers did was try and tie me up in knots and I fell for it.

You say no chi sau yet that is all we see from PB on his videos and I have not seen any fighting. I am not saying he doesn't spar only that he does chi sau and apparently a lot of it. I can't speak for your past teachers they may have been lousy as you say but that does not mean everyone is lousy. Many good wing chun people use chi sau as a teaching tool to explain the tools and tactics of wing chun. I think the good ones know that chi sau is not fighting. GL fought the Thais so he certainly would know that chi sau is not what he experienced in the ring.

BTW VT is not Thai Boxing so what GL did then I don't think about.

I brought that up to show that GL has had experiences like fighting thai boxers that forms his views of wing chun and how to teach it. Also by practicing it a bot gives him additional experience that he brings to his wing chun. Just as WSL had had trained boxing and used that experience in his wing chun.

[tc101]

..........and it doesn't make any difference how long GL was with WSL just like it doesn't make no odds how long some people were with Ip Man himself. The relationship between teacher and student and information shared is what is important not time frames.

The time frame shows that someone has spent a lot of time with an instructor and if someone spends a lot of time with them this would show the quality of their relationship and access to the information. Not only that but it allows you to observe things longer and perhaps see changes in things like what an instructor is doing or teaching others that others with shorter time with the instructor may not see.

[Graham H]

]Really? Where was that in the interview?

I didn't say it was in the interview. I didn't watch it. I've better things to do like stare out of the office window.

You say no chi sau yet that is all we see from PB on his videos and I have not seen any fighting.

Oh FFS! Will you get a grip?! What is contained in the videos is only a small part of what our lineage is about. You want more? Go!

I am not saying he doesn't spar only that he does chi sau and apparently a lot of it.

Of course we do chi sau but chi sau is only a mutual cooperative training drill.

I can't speak for your past teachers they may have been lousy as you say but that does not mean everyone is lousy.

Who said lousy? I said not as good!

Many good wing chun people use chi sau as a teaching tool to explain the tools and tactics of wing chun.

So do we but in my experience most use it for the wrong purposes.

I brought that up to show that GL has had experiences like fighting thai boxers that forms his views of wing chun and how to teach it. Also by practicing it a bot gives him additional experience that he brings to his wing chun. Just as WSL had had trained boxing and used that experience in his wing chun.

Yes ok but I don't like it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some of the things he does is stupid never mind anything else like the time he taught a student to block a thai roundhouse kick by putting his hand over your ear! BS!

[Graham H]

The time frame shows that someone has spent a lot of time with an instructor and if someone spends a lot of time with them this would show the quality of their relationship and access to the information. Not only that but it allows you to observe things longer and perhaps see changes in things like what an instructor is doing or teaching others that others with shorter time with the instructor may not see.

That is complete nonsense! You seem to assume that every student/teacher relationship is perfect. What about actual time spent training? What about actual contact? What about if or not the student actually understands what he/she is being taught and how much time they spend perfecting it? Does every VT student go on to become a quality teacher of it? No!

You are quite narrow minded mate which is ironic as you think I am

[k gledhill]

The time frame shows that someone has spent a lot of time with an instructor and if someone spends a lot of time with them this would show the quality of their relationship and access to the information. Not only that but it allows you to observe things longer and perhaps see changes in things like what an instructor is doing or teaching others that others with shorter time with the instructor may not see.

Ahhhhh NO !! This is no guarantee. As the saying goes, it is not who spends the longest time doing it, but who understands quickest.