Create your own form

[YouKnowWho]

Why do you want to creat your own forms?

If you have 100 favor combo drills, it's pretty hard to remember and number it from #1 to #100. If you create 3 or 4 forms to cover all your favor moves. It will be easier to "remember" for yourself. Of course you don't need to train your form. It just serve as a text book. You keep it. Open it when you need.

Here is what I have found the easiest way to do it.

1. Put all 100 combos on in .doc format on your computer.
2. Identify those combo that the last move can make you to turn 180 degree. Mart it as T.
3. group every 4 combos together with the T combo as the 4th combo (you can call this 1 road).
4. You can construct your forms by 4 roads (16 combos), 6 roads (24 combos), 8 roads (32 combos), ...

Any comments?

[BlackEChan]

Are you asking us to create our own form?!

[YouKnowWho]

Are you asking us to create our own form?!

If it's not now, may be 30 years from today. How will you do it if you want to?

Assume you

- only have limit space.
- have to come back to the same spot and facing to the same direction.

[-N-]

Why do you want to creat your own forms?

If you have 100 favor combo drills, it's pretty hard to remember and number it from #1 to #100. If you create 3 or 4 forms to cover all your favor moves. It will be easier to "remember" for yourself. Of course you don't need to train your form. It just serve as a text book. You keep it. Open it when you need.

Here is what I have found the easiest way to do it.

1. Put all 100 combos on in .doc format on your computer.
2. Identify those combo that the last move can make you to turn 180 degree. Mart it as T.
3. group every 4 combos together with the T combo as the 4th combo (you can call this 1 road).
4. You can construct your forms by 4 roads (16 combos), 6 roads (24 combos), 8 roads (32 combos), ...

Any comments?

This approach is technique based and doesn't specifically address strategy.

If you organize the roads to document application variations under different situations and context, the form will have depth of meaning. But then most will not appreciate it.

[YouKnowWho]

This approach is technique based and doesn't specifically address strategy.

If you organize the roads to document application variations under different situations and context, the form will have depth of meaning. But then most will not appreciate it.

I think this approach can be more strategy than technique. If you use

- kick, parry, punch,
- kick, punch, grab, punch,
- grab, grab, wrap,
- grab, pull, spin,
- ...

as the initial moves of your combos, you have already considerd "entering strategy" as part of your form. If your entering strategy can be applied in many combos, you may not want to include it in all those combos but just one. If your "finish move" involve ground game, It may be challenged to include those in the form.

So my definition of combo is "entering strategy + finish strategy" that you can use it to end a fight if needed.

[BlackEChan]

Hmm... I would probably start with dynamic tension, and then follow with simple techniques. I find these the most useful when it comes to forms, because they are more open to application than flashy combos, making the form/encyclopedia contain even richer movements, with more uses.
These would be done in place, or with little stance shifting.

Then to continue, a few techniques that make you move more than the ones before. These would help strengthen your foundation and stances.

The last part would contain the techniques that focus on close distance application as well as grappling and joint manipulation. Although the entire form is done on your feet, these last few combinations are meant to be used only for close frame combat and escapes for when you are in a bind on the ground.


I don't know if I'd ever make such a form, but it's just an idea, a creative display of what I would do if I had to create one.

[YouKnowWho]

Most

- longfist forms have "training method" in it.
- praying mantis forms only have "combat application" in it.

This is why the longfist system is more abstract than the praying mantis system.

[Kymus]

Most

- longfist forms have "training method" in it.
- praying mantis forms only have "combat application" in it.

This is why the longfist system is more abstract than the praying mantis system.

I find this very interesting, could you please elaborate?

[Yum Cha]

Not sure how your style works John, do you have forms in your standard system? How many if I may ask? My Pak Mei has about 10.

The first question should be, why new forms?
- do they add something (like an academic thesis) to the style?
- what lesson does the form introduce, or what new physical capability does it train?

"Training exercises" of your own design, short or long, I think are different. Combining existing content into different patterns - is that a new form?

I think a proliferation of forms isn't good for a style, as it dilutes the 'lessons' and supports the 'form collector' misunderstanding that more forms make a better martial artist.

That being said, we all develop our own personal combinations, and its fun to trade, share and test them out, with the best ones getting adopted.

[YouKnowWho]

If you organize the roads to document application variations under different situations and context, the form will have depth of meaning. But then most will not appreciate it.

For simplicity, all my combos are "I attack first". I don't like to think "If you do .... I'll do ...". Instead, I like to think, "When I do ..., if you respond ..., I'll do ...". It may be similiar but "I'll do ..." is a much smaller set to consider if I attack first.

[Yum Cha]

For simplicity, all my combos are "I attack first". I don't like to think "If you do .... I'll do ...". Instead, I like to think, "When I do ..., if you respond ..., I'll do ...". It may be similiar but "I'll do ..." is a much smaller set to consider if I attack first.

Penetration and application.

[-N-]

For simplicity, all my combos are "I attack first". I don't like to think "If you do .... I'll do ...". Instead, I like to think, "When I do ..., if you respond ..., I'll do ...". It may be similiar but "I'll do ..." is a much smaller set to consider if I attack first.

Even when atacking first, there are different situations whether you or the other person creates them.

You can use direct or indirect method. You might emphasize speed, or you might choose to focus on power methods. You can emphasize control and sensitivity for subtle entry and takedown. Or you might use more boxing type hit and run methods to confuse and set up a take down. Even when you initiate, your combinations will change depending on the skills, preferences, and attributes of the other person. He may be flinchy, or he may be as aggressive as you and prefer close range. He may be bigger or stronger. He may prefer to punch, or kick, or grapple. He may be good at redirecting your attacks. You might want to set up a pivoting or circular attack vs. a linear. One time you talked about chasing hands. Maybe you want to use that, but you also might have methods that control or prevent the need to chase hands.

My focus is not forms, but if you are going to do them, you can use them to document all the variations of how you apply your system theory. More to things than just "Hulk smash..."

[YouKnowWho]

Even when atacking first, there are different situations whether you or the other person creates them.

You can use direct or indirect method. You might emphasize speed, or you might choose to focus on power methods. You can emphasize control and sensitivity for subtle entry and takedown. Or you might use more boxing type hit and run methods to confuse and set up a take down. Even when you initiate, your combinations will change depending on the skills, preferences, and attributes of the other person. He may be flinchy, or he may be as aggressive as you and prefer close range. He may be bigger or stronger. He may prefer to punch, or kick, or grapple. He may be good at redirecting your attacks. You might want to set up a pivoting or circular attack vs. a linear. One time you talked about chasing hands. Maybe you want to use that, but you also might have methods that control or prevent the need to chase hands.

My focus is not forms, but if you are going to do them, you can use them to document all the variations of how you apply your system theory. More to things than just "Hulk smash..."

You are right! There are a lot of information that will be worthwhile to record. So far I have recorded how to deal with:

- MT clinch,
- wrestling leg shooting,
- boxing jab, cross combo,
- MT roundhouse kick,
- ...

My goal is trying to cover as much areas as I can. It's a task that only has the starting point. There will be no ending point.

My focus is not form either. To cover all those information that you have mentioned is an interest and challenged task.

[-N-]

My focus is not form either. To cover all those information that you have mentioned is an interest and challenged task.

It's funny that two "not forms" guys talk about forms theory, and some forms guys don't even consider that.

[dcrjradmonish]

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1237156]Why do you want to creat your own forms?

If you have 100 favor combo drills, it's pretty hard to remember and number it from #1 to #100. If you create 3 or 4 forms to cover all your favor moves. It will be easier to "remember" for yourself. Of course you don't need to train your form. It just serve as a text book. You keep it. Open it when you need.

Here is what I have found the easiest way to do it.

1. Put all 100 combos on in .doc format on your computer.
2. Identify those combo that the last move can make you to turn 180 degree. Mart it as T.
3. group every 4 combos together with the T combo as the 4th combo (you can call this 1 road).
4. You can construct your forms by 4 roads (16 combos), 6 roads (24 combos), 8 roads (32 combos), ...


What do you think your favorite 10 combo moves be you would start with combat application wise? Mine would be
1. Front kick, Jab, Cross ( Enter Stage)
2. Round kick, Hook, Uppercut ( Enter Stage)
3. Eye Rake, Elbow, Elbow ( Enter Stage)
4. Hip Throw, Mount, Head butt ( CQ Stage )
5. Hook, Hook, Uppercut ( CQ Stage )
6. Knee, Knee, Knee (CQ Stage)
7. Jab, Jab, Jab ( Exit Stage)
8. Head butt, Head butt, Shove ( Exit Stage)
9. Jab, Cross, Jab ( Exit Stage)
10. Would add some rolls, falls and quick getting up in there also not sure how to format it in a form but would take 1 combo from each stage and string them 9 count series. Also hand shape would change a jab might be a grab a cross be a palm a eye rake might be a wipe or a claw but playing with different shapes with basic movements if that makes sense.