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Thread: Create your own form

  1. #1
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    Create your own form

    Why do you want to creat your own forms?

    If you have 100 favor combo drills, it's pretty hard to remember and number it from #1 to #100. If you create 3 or 4 forms to cover all your favor moves. It will be easier to "remember" for yourself. Of course you don't need to train your form. It just serve as a text book. You keep it. Open it when you need.

    Here is what I have found the easiest way to do it.

    1. Put all 100 combos on in .doc format on your computer.
    2. Identify those combo that the last move can make you to turn 180 degree. Mart it as T.
    3. group every 4 combos together with the T combo as the 4th combo (you can call this 1 road).
    4. You can construct your forms by 4 roads (16 combos), 6 roads (24 combos), 8 roads (32 combos), ...

    Any comments?
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-29-2013 at 02:47 PM.
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  2. #2
    Are you asking us to create our own form?!
    "He who say's does not know, he who knows does not say"

    "True Gong Fu is practicing in the coldest days of winter and the dog days of summer"

    "Don't try, do"

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackEChan View Post
    Are you asking us to create our own form?!
    If it's not now, may be 30 years from today. How will you do it if you want to?

    Assume you

    - only have limit space.
    - have to come back to the same spot and facing to the same direction.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-29-2013 at 03:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Why do you want to creat your own forms?

    If you have 100 favor combo drills, it's pretty hard to remember and number it from #1 to #100. If you create 3 or 4 forms to cover all your favor moves. It will be easier to "remember" for yourself. Of course you don't need to train your form. It just serve as a text book. You keep it. Open it when you need.

    Here is what I have found the easiest way to do it.

    1. Put all 100 combos on in .doc format on your computer.
    2. Identify those combo that the last move can make you to turn 180 degree. Mart it as T.
    3. group every 4 combos together with the T combo as the 4th combo (you can call this 1 road).
    4. You can construct your forms by 4 roads (16 combos), 6 roads (24 combos), 8 roads (32 combos), ...

    Any comments?
    This approach is technique based and doesn't specifically address strategy.

    If you organize the roads to document application variations under different situations and context, the form will have depth of meaning. But then most will not appreciate it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    This approach is technique based and doesn't specifically address strategy.

    If you organize the roads to document application variations under different situations and context, the form will have depth of meaning. But then most will not appreciate it.
    I think this approach can be more strategy than technique. If you use

    - kick, parry, punch,
    - kick, punch, grab, punch,
    - grab, grab, wrap,
    - grab, pull, spin,
    - ...

    as the initial moves of your combos, you have already considerd "entering strategy" as part of your form. If your entering strategy can be applied in many combos, you may not want to include it in all those combos but just one. If your "finish move" involve ground game, It may be challenged to include those in the form.

    So my definition of combo is "entering strategy + finish strategy" that you can use it to end a fight if needed.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-29-2013 at 04:04 PM.
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  6. #6
    Hmm... I would probably start with dynamic tension, and then follow with simple techniques. I find these the most useful when it comes to forms, because they are more open to application than flashy combos, making the form/encyclopedia contain even richer movements, with more uses.
    These would be done in place, or with little stance shifting.

    Then to continue, a few techniques that make you move more than the ones before. These would help strengthen your foundation and stances.

    The last part would contain the techniques that focus on close distance application as well as grappling and joint manipulation. Although the entire form is done on your feet, these last few combinations are meant to be used only for close frame combat and escapes for when you are in a bind on the ground.


    I don't know if I'd ever make such a form, but it's just an idea, a creative display of what I would do if I had to create one.
    "He who say's does not know, he who knows does not say"

    "True Gong Fu is practicing in the coldest days of winter and the dog days of summer"

    "Don't try, do"

  7. #7
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    Most

    - longfist forms have "training method" in it.
    - praying mantis forms only have "combat application" in it.

    This is why the longfist system is more abstract than the praying mantis system.
    http://johnswang.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Most

    - longfist forms have "training method" in it.
    - praying mantis forms only have "combat application" in it.

    This is why the longfist system is more abstract than the praying mantis system.
    I find this very interesting, could you please elaborate?
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymus View Post
    I find this very interesting, could you please elaborate?
    If you look at this longfist form. At the begining 0.05 - 0.14, he held his back arm straight back when he punched. His back arm served no combat purpose but to "train" how to align body as a straight line when punch. This kind of abstraction doesn't exist in the praying mantis system.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt83nvRwq-4
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-29-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    If you look at this longfist form. At the begining 0.05 - 0.14, he held his back arm straight back when he punch. His back arm served no combat purpose but to "train" how to align body as a straight line when you punch. This kind of abstraction doesn't exist in the praying mantis system.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt83nvRwq-4
    Interesting! Is this why longfist is considered a good foundation art?
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  11. #11
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    Not sure how your style works John, do you have forms in your standard system? How many if I may ask? My Pak Mei has about 10.

    The first question should be, why new forms?
    - do they add something (like an academic thesis) to the style?
    - what lesson does the form introduce, or what new physical capability does it train?

    "Training exercises" of your own design, short or long, I think are different. Combining existing content into different patterns - is that a new form?

    I think a proliferation of forms isn't good for a style, as it dilutes the 'lessons' and supports the 'form collector' misunderstanding that more forms make a better martial artist.

    That being said, we all develop our own personal combinations, and its fun to trade, share and test them out, with the best ones getting adopted.
    Guangzhou Pak Mei Kung Fu School, Sydney Australia,
    Sifu Leung, Yuk Seng
    Established 1989, Glebe Australia

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymus View Post
    Interesting! Is this why longfist is considered a good foundation art?
    The longfist system includes "training" only in their beginner forms. In the intermediate level or advance lavel, both longfist from and praying mantis form are very similiar. Since a beginner will need those training, longfist will be a good system to start.
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  13. #13
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    Just saw the other clip with the Forms John.
    Guangzhou Pak Mei Kung Fu School, Sydney Australia,
    Sifu Leung, Yuk Seng
    Established 1989, Glebe Australia

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yum Cha View Post
    Not sure how your style works John, do you have forms in your standard system? How many if I may ask? My Pak Mei has about 10.

    The first question should be, why new forms?
    - do they add something (like an academic thesis) to the style?
    - what lesson does the form introduce, or what new physical capability does it train?

    "Training exercises" of your own design, short or long, I think are different. Combining existing content into different patterns - is that a new form?

    I think a proliferation of forms isn't good for a style, as it dilutes the 'lessons' and supports the 'form collector' misunderstanding that more forms make a better martial artist.

    That being said, we all develop our own personal combinations, and its fun to trade, share and test them out, with the best ones getting adopted.
    That's a good question to ask. What's the value of those new forms?

    In my longfist system if weapon forms are included, it includes more that 30 forms.

    I like to create a from that has no style boundary. It's not a form for longfist, praying mantis, Baji, Zimen, ... but a form for "combat". I like to integrate kick, punch, lock, throw, ground game into my form that not many longfist, praying mantis, Baji, Zimen, ... form have that. For example, here is a combo that I like to include into my form.

    - roundhouse kick,
    - hook punch,
    - under hook,
    - inner hook,
    - leg block,
    - outer leg twist.

    Since this combo doesn't exist in any of those forms that I have learned (I have learned more than 50 forms), I have no choice but to create it myself.

    In other words, instead of trying to train and remember those 50 forms that I have learned in my life, I just want to condense into 3 forms that I created. That's a lot of easier for me to remember. I may never want to teach those forms to anybody. This way I won't add any "burden" to the future generation.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 06-29-2013 at 05:03 PM.
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    More opinion -> more argument
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    That's a good question to ask. What's the value of those new forms?

    In my longfist system if weapon forms are included, it includes more that 30 forms.

    I like to create a from that has no style boundary. It's not a form for longfist, praying mantis, Baji, Zimen, ... but a form for "combat". I like to integrate kick, punch, lock, throw, ground game into my form that not many longfist, praying mantis, Baji, Zimen, ... form have that. For example, here is a combo that I like to include into my form.

    - front kick,
    - hook punch,
    - under hook,
    - inner hook,
    - leg block,
    - outer leg twist.

    Since this combo doesn't exist in those 50 forms that I have learned in my life, I have no choice but to create it myself.
    Yea, makes sense. Have you got experience with Northern or Southern Praying Mantis?
    Guangzhou Pak Mei Kung Fu School, Sydney Australia,
    Sifu Leung, Yuk Seng
    Established 1989, Glebe Australia

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