Create your own form

[Yum Cha]

That's a good question to ask. What's the value of those new forms?

...

In other words, instead of trying to train and remember those 50 forms that I have learned in my life, I just want to condense into 3 forms that I created. That's a lot of easier for me to remember. I may never want to teach those forms to anybody. This way I won't add any "burden" to the future generation.

After looking at your other thread and the forms, I can see how you could make a good contribution in doing so. I don't believe forms should be all consuming.

[mickey]

Greetings,

It would be of no use to create a form like that without, as -N- suggested, an underlying theory. Having that helps preserve the integrity of a set over time. If not, the form would be subject to change from one generation to the next.

A better way would be to construct a paired combat form. It would better preserve those techniques. Include complementary drills and training methods. Use modern technology to "book" the information on film and print. Then you will have something that will endure as long as there is a need or desire for it.


mickey

[YouKnowWho]

Yea, makes sense. Have you got experience with Northern or Southern Praying Mantis?

I have crossed trained the northern PM but I know nothing about the southern PM. Most of the styles that I have cross trained are northern except WC and Zimen.

to construct a paired combat form.

All my combos came from partner drills. I first map 2 men drills into solo drills (with some exaggration). I then map solo drills into forms.

Many years ago I tried to create a longfist summary form so I can only pritice 1 longfist form and not all longfist forms. Before that I had created a SC form that only contain throwing skill. Today, I like to mix striking art and throwing art into one form. I don't know what I will think 20 years from now.

[Kymus]

The longfist system includes "training" only in their beginner forms. In the intermediate level or advance lavel, both longfist from and praying mantis form are very similiar. Since a beginner will need those training, longfist will be a good system to start.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

[YouKnowWho]

If you organize the roads to document application variations under different situations and context, the form will have depth of meaning. But then most will not appreciate it.

For simplicity, all my combos are "I attack first". I don't like to think "If you do .... I'll do ...". Instead, I like to think, "When I do ..., if you respond ..., I'll do ...". It may be similiar but "I'll do ..." is a much smaller set to consider if I attack first.

[Yum Cha]

For simplicity, all my combos are "I attack first". I don't like to think "If you do .... I'll do ...". Instead, I like to think, "When I do ..., if you respond ..., I'll do ...". It may be similiar but "I'll do ..." is a much smaller set to consider if I attack first.

Penetration and application.

[-N-]

For simplicity, all my combos are "I attack first". I don't like to think "If you do .... I'll do ...". Instead, I like to think, "When I do ..., if you respond ..., I'll do ...". It may be similiar but "I'll do ..." is a much smaller set to consider if I attack first.

Even when atacking first, there are different situations whether you or the other person creates them.

You can use direct or indirect method. You might emphasize speed, or you might choose to focus on power methods. You can emphasize control and sensitivity for subtle entry and takedown. Or you might use more boxing type hit and run methods to confuse and set up a take down. Even when you initiate, your combinations will change depending on the skills, preferences, and attributes of the other person. He may be flinchy, or he may be as aggressive as you and prefer close range. He may be bigger or stronger. He may prefer to punch, or kick, or grapple. He may be good at redirecting your attacks. You might want to set up a pivoting or circular attack vs. a linear. One time you talked about chasing hands. Maybe you want to use that, but you also might have methods that control or prevent the need to chase hands.

My focus is not forms, but if you are going to do them, you can use them to document all the variations of how you apply your system theory. More to things than just "Hulk smash..."

[-N-]

The longfist system includes "training" only in their beginner forms. In the intermediate level or advance lavel, both longfist from and praying mantis form are very similiar. Since a beginner will need those training, longfist will be a good system to start.

Even hand at the waist, or reverse punch from bow and arrow stance is abstract training method. Just not as extreme as the example with the extended back arm.

[YouKnowWho]

Even hand at the waist, or reverse punch from bow and arrow stance is abstract training method. Just not as extreme as the example with the extended back arm.

Instead of using the word "abstract", I prefer to use the word "exaggerate". All the longfist hand on the waist are grabbing your opponent's arm and pull his body into you.

In the beginning, I just mapped 2 men drills directly into solo drills. When I trained those solo drills, I felt that it was just too easy on my body and there is not enough challenge. I then realized that the "exaggeration" will be needed. For example, when I train this move,

http://imageshack.us/a/img201/3762/johnleglift.jpg

if I have to use my right hand to touch my standing left leg ankle, I'll force myself to stretch my body more and harder for me to maintain balance.

[YouKnowWho]

Even when atacking first, there are different situations whether you or the other person creates them.

You can use direct or indirect method. You might emphasize speed, or you might choose to focus on power methods. You can emphasize control and sensitivity for subtle entry and takedown. Or you might use more boxing type hit and run methods to confuse and set up a take down. Even when you initiate, your combinations will change depending on the skills, preferences, and attributes of the other person. He may be flinchy, or he may be as aggressive as you and prefer close range. He may be bigger or stronger. He may prefer to punch, or kick, or grapple. He may be good at redirecting your attacks. You might want to set up a pivoting or circular attack vs. a linear. One time you talked about chasing hands. Maybe you want to use that, but you also might have methods that control or prevent the need to chase hands.

My focus is not forms, but if you are going to do them, you can use them to document all the variations of how you apply your system theory. More to things than just "Hulk smash..."

You are right! There are a lot of information that will be worthwhile to record. So far I have recorded how to deal with:

- MT clinch,
- wrestling leg shooting,
- boxing jab, cross combo,
- MT roundhouse kick,
- ...

My goal is trying to cover as much areas as I can. It's a task that only has the starting point. There will be no ending point.

My focus is not form either. To cover all those information that you have mentioned is an interest and challenged task.

[-N-]

I then realized that the "exaggeration" will be needed. For example, when I train this move,

http://imageshack.us/a/img201/3762/johnleglift.jpg

if I have to use my right hand to touch my standing left leg ankle, I'll force myself to stretch my body more and harder for me to maintain balance.

Yep. A lot of people don't appreciate the benefit of deliberately exaggerated motion as a training method. They just criticise TCMA and say it is not practical.

[-N-]

My focus is not form either. To cover all those information that you have mentioned is an interest and challenged task.

It's funny that two "not forms" guys talk about forms theory, and some forms guys don't even consider that.

[Kellen Bassette]

It's funny that two "not forms" guys talk about forms theory, and some forms guys don't even consider that.

Because those interested in combat aspects will entertain anything of value. For hobby form collectors I think it's mostly about aesthetics.

[dcrjradmonish]

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1237156]Why do you want to creat your own forms?

If you have 100 favor combo drills, it's pretty hard to remember and number it from #1 to #100. If you create 3 or 4 forms to cover all your favor moves. It will be easier to "remember" for yourself. Of course you don't need to train your form. It just serve as a text book. You keep it. Open it when you need.

Here is what I have found the easiest way to do it.

1. Put all 100 combos on in .doc format on your computer.
2. Identify those combo that the last move can make you to turn 180 degree. Mart it as T.
3. group every 4 combos together with the T combo as the 4th combo (you can call this 1 road).
4. You can construct your forms by 4 roads (16 combos), 6 roads (24 combos), 8 roads (32 combos), ...


What do you think your favorite 10 combo moves be you would start with combat application wise? Mine would be
1. Front kick, Jab, Cross ( Enter Stage)
2. Round kick, Hook, Uppercut ( Enter Stage)
3. Eye Rake, Elbow, Elbow ( Enter Stage)
4. Hip Throw, Mount, Head butt ( CQ Stage )
5. Hook, Hook, Uppercut ( CQ Stage )
6. Knee, Knee, Knee (CQ Stage)
7. Jab, Jab, Jab ( Exit Stage)
8. Head butt, Head butt, Shove ( Exit Stage)
9. Jab, Cross, Jab ( Exit Stage)
10. Would add some rolls, falls and quick getting up in there also not sure how to format it in a form but would take 1 combo from each stage and string them 9 count series. Also hand shape would change a jab might be a grab a cross be a palm a eye rake might be a wipe or a claw but playing with different shapes with basic movements if that makes sense.

[-N-]

1. Front kick, Jab, Cross ( Enter Stage)
2. Round kick, Hook, Uppercut ( Enter Stage)
3. Eye Rake, Elbow, Elbow ( Enter Stage)

In this sequence, what is the reasoning for following the uppercut with eye rake?

And eye rake with elbow, elbow?