I'm looking for a strong, heavy monk's spade. Any help?

[Sha Seng]

I read this old thread, but the OP seemed to want a special monk's spade, instead of just a good one. I, personally, am more interested in durability and weight than flashiness.

Like, one concern of mine is that the weapon's shaft will break. I have no idea what I would do if that happened, but I'm sure it would cost a lot of money to properly fix. Since the weapon will be expensive in the first place, I'd like it to be strong. Maybe a metal shaft would be a good idea? And I'm more interested in training than competition, so I want a heavy spade. I've heard that it's better to learn with a heavy weapon, since improper form will wreck your shoulders and dropping it would, you know, hurt a lot.

So far, all I've been able to find is this one from WLE. It might be what I'm looking for, but it's hard to tell through a computer screen. I considered paying a forge to make a spade for me, but when I looked into Masterforge Limited - the one mentioned in the thread I linked, that told the OP they could make one for him - all I could find was a dead website. I looked harder and learned that Masterforge's products came from Zheng Wu Knife & Sword Company (reference) in China. I contacted them, and they told me, of course, that the spade I want would be too heavy to export.

And I don't know of any other forges that would know how to make one, let alone actually get it to me.

So yeah, I have no idea what I'm doing. Help please! D:

[Raipizo]

Maybe check around for a metal working shop or something and see if you can work something out? Either that or can't the ends come off of the spade and just be reattached to a heavy metal staff?

[mickey]

Greetings and Welcome to the Forum,

Firstly, you would want to get the ornaments. Martial Arts Mart sells a monk spade that is about 50% heavier than the one offered by WLE and it is a little cheaper.

Secondly, if the weight really is not enough for you you may consider getting a used Olympic bar that you can have a metal worker/welder cut the ends off and weld the ornaments on for you.

Thirdly, and most importantly, the use of heavy weapons requires chi training. Sure, you can muscle it if you want. But if you want the most benefit from such training you should be training chi. The benefits of doing so are those of efficient movement and enhanced body connectivity, as well as improved overall strength.

Then again, you may already be at this level.

If not, talk to your Sifu about this.

EDIT: You may want to consider working with an Olympic bar to see if you can handle it to begin with. I have had classmates train pole forms with a standard six foot bar. Even though the standard pole is a good weight, I do not think it is thick enough for what you want to do.


mickey

[David Jamieson]

http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-84cs.html

says it's only 14 pounds.... but I suspect that weight varies a little from piece to piece.

[IronFist]

Thirdly, and most importantly, the use of heavy weapons requires chi training. Sure, you can muscle it if you want. But if you want the most benefit from such training you should be training chi.

Are you suggesting that chi is moving the weapon rather than muscle strength?

@ the OP, an Olympic bar is 45 pounds and just over 7 feet long. It can be fun to play around with but if you do some spinning moves and build up momentum and try to stop too suddenly you may injure your connective tissues (whether you are "training chi" or not).

I don't know how much an Olympic bar would weigh if you cut the ends off.

There are also smaller weight bars (5' I think) that weigh 30 or 35 pounds. Perhaps one of those might be another option.

Unless you absolutely need the metal parts at the end of the weapon, why not just consider a weighted staff?

[mickey]

Greetings IronFist,

Your intention is what causes movement. Period.

Training chi does help greatly. That is as much as I can say.

The person did ask about a heavy weapon. He did not specify a particular weight. He can make that determination when he picks up a bar. If it is too heavy for him he can try something else.


mickey

[MightyB]

For your daily info-tainment...

[Kymus]

For your daily info-tainment...

The monk spade and the melon hammer had a kid..

[GeneChing]

http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-84cs.html

says it's only 14 pounds.... but I suspect that weight varies a little from piece to piece.

The last time I checked (and note there is variation from shipment to shipment) most of the weight is in the crescent blade. The spade blade is hollow, but assembled from thick sheets of steel, so it's not light, just not as heavy as it would be if it were solid. We often replace the wood shafts with metal rods as the wood often can't support the heavy weapon heads; those shafts are hollow too, but substantial. Note that we are shifting a lot of our long weapons away from our previous Dragon Well supplier as their mid-range weapons have increased significantly in price and dropping significantly in quality. Dragon Well is moving more towards high-end pieces, and as nice as those are, they tend to wind up as dead stock for us. Observant buyers may have noticed a few of our weapons are now coming from alternate makers.

[Sha Seng]

Hello everyone! Thanks for all the help. I had, somehow, managed to overlook the heavy spade at Martial Arts Mart. That it comes with a metal shaft instead of a wooden one is really nice. It's not exactly traditional, but it's practical.

And now that I think of it...when I asked my teacher about this, he said he had a heavy combat steel one from Tiger Claw, and that he would bring it in one day for me to see. I didn't think to look it up since he'd be showing it to me. It must be this one here. So I'll get a hands-on experience with it. Neat!

I didn't know it, but I happen to have a few various metal bars lying around here, some of which are weightlifting bars. I'll ask my teacher about chi training, and practice staff forms with the bars before I worry about making the spade heavier. Regardless of the semantics, internal practice will help.

Thanks for all the input! And thanks for the insight into the product, Gene!

[GeneChing]

We just got a shipment in but there were no heavy monk spades in that container. It is *not* an item that is slated to be discontinued at this time, and more are expected in the next shipment, but I can't say when for sure. The last version had wood shafts, not metal ones, so it is expected that the next shipment will be the same.

As an aside, I have a metal shaft Monk Spade in my personal collection. It is chrome-plated, which I'm not fond of, but the heads are solid steel, not hollow. While not as heavy as the Dragon Well crescent blade, they are still significant enough to punch through a car door. It's a modern piece but I haven't seen any American vendors importing from that particular maker yet. I should really learn the form...

BTW, ever see our Shaolin Special 2005? The Featured Weapon in that issue is one of the most magnificent monk spades I've ever seen.

[MasterKiller]

So far, all I've been able to find is this one from WLE. :

This one is too heavy, imo. I've used it a few times.

[Kymus]

While not as heavy as the Dragon Well crescent blade, they are still significant enough to punch through a car door.

Good for when the pizza guy is really a zombie...

[GeneChing]

...for zombies.

[Sha Seng]

The last version had wood shafts, not metal ones, so it is expected that the next shipment will be the same.

What! *throws hands up*

As an aside, I have a metal shaft Monk Spade in my personal collection. It is chrome-plated, which I'm not fond of, but the heads are solid steel, not hollow... ...It's a modern piece but I haven't seen any American vendors importing from that particular maker yet.

So what you're saying is that I need to visit China to get what I want. Arggh.

BTW, ever see our Shaolin Special 2005? The Featured Weapon in that issue is one of the most magnificent monk spades I've ever seen.

I haven't seen that one, but I'll take a look. I've already grabbed a couple of spade-related products from the store.

This one is too heavy, imo. I've used it a few times.

Too heavy? But weren't the original spades, that monks actually carried, very heavy? I can't imagine that the commercial versions we have now, that are made by machines from cheaper materials, are actually heavier than the old ones. That thought just seems strange to me.

I mean, I could be wrong. I just want something authentic. I know I'm not as strong as these monks were, but it'd be a goal to work toward, at least.