Wing chun to Sparring

[Jansingsang]

Well bully for you right back at you!

Just giving my opinion as a guy that's trained two styles of stance.... sorry to try and start a conversation!

I found your tone quite condicending I'm not here to insult or be arrogant with engagement with individuals on this forum Only if you Pi$$ me off course .Maybe it's a culture misunderstanding you being Aussie and the Ashes & all So i give you the benefit over the doubt
No problem Gezzer

[GlennR]

I found your tone quite condicending I'm not here to insult or be arrogant with engagement with individuals on this forum Only if you Pi$$ me off course .Maybe it's a culture misunderstanding you being Aussie and the Ashes & all So i give you the benefit over the doubt
No problem Gezzer

No problems

[Wayfaring]

Side stance. Rounds last night. I was playing around shifting in and out of this. Got too sideways closer to TKD side stance - single-legged by a very good wrestler like taking candy from a baby and eating GNP leather for 3 min. So - object lesson - if you are going to play with pin sun watch your front leg exposure to the takedown. I'm sure I've said that here before. Also, grappling guys. Put on some gloves and add strikes into your rolling more often. I was so rusty with that that leather in the face every 3 seconds was completely making me lose focus on getting any escape strategy going. Opponent even mentioned it - "I was surprised with knowing your ground skills you couldn't get anything going".

Totally frustrating.

On the positive side, for the WCK identity, was going with one of the heavys. I noticed playing boxing with someone like that - taller, heavier, really heavy hands, that the exchanges were not going in my favor. They know the combos better, the slips and counters to them, the footwork, and they work on it 2x per day. I can't hang very well in that type of a scenario. But I also noticed how attribute based it is. I shifted strategy to a solid jong sau structure in the upper gate and started in pursuit on the centerline and manipulating bridge contact. I was getting in - not cleanly all the time, sometimes more crash and shove response and adjusting to the openings - but was able to key off that in getting some offense going and landing some strikes.

Cliff notes from the field on sparring. It's fun - new learning every day. Every opponent teaches you something.

Anyway, nothing to see here. Back to condescension, wing chun "DNA", and whose WCK is really WCK.

[Wayfaring]

The "vulnerable to takedowns" thing is pretty much a red herring where stance is concerned. I am unconvinced that the development of WC stances had anything to do with takedown defence, even back in 1850.

Well, seeing as Jigoro Kano was born in 1860, I would surmise that the level of ground skill in 1860 was pretty non-existent outside of possibly a few select areas. Today we even look at the 1990's Mundials as archaic and note the advancement in grappling and skill levels even since then. I would say your 1850 assessment with the evidence available is pretty sound.

On leg in front, you are vulnerable to single leg attacks, neither leg forward gives opportunities for double leg attacks. It's not so much the stance as the ability to move and possessing skills to counter the takedown that makes the difference.

If you want to ensure you can't be taken down, avoid fights and sparring matches.

I do see a trend in the nogi competitions where the better competitors are gravitating to a neither leg forward stance and working from there. The reason being is that you can block the entry to the double leg easier by lowering your level and getting your forehead in the way of the entry. One leg forward it's easier to drop and snatch the single grip. Then better wrestlers have dozens of ways to finish the single.

But yes, you are on point - the skills you build in takedown defense (which are wrestling skills) are infinitely more important than either stance is. And there are openings to either stance.

And totally agree - prepare to be taken down. And what you are going to do when you get taken down. I've been working the kimura grip, and wrestling funk rolls (Ben Askren style) while being taken down lately.

[tc101]

Side stance. Rounds last night. I was playing around shifting in and out of this. Got too sideways closer to TKD side stance - single-legged by a very good wrestler like taking candy from a baby and eating GNP leather for 3 min. So - object lesson - if you are going to play with pin sun watch your front leg exposure to the takedown. I'm sure I've said that here before. Also, grappling guys. Put on some gloves and add strikes into your rolling more often. I was so rusty with that that leather in the face every 3 seconds was completely making me lose focus on getting any escape strategy going. Opponent even mentioned it - "I was surprised with knowing your ground skills you couldn't get anything going".

Totally frustrating.

On the positive side, for the WCK identity, was going with one of the heavys. I noticed playing boxing with someone like that - taller, heavier, really heavy hands, that the exchanges were not going in my favor. They know the combos better, the slips and counters to them, the footwork, and they work on it 2x per day. I can't hang very well in that type of a scenario. But I also noticed how attribute based it is. I shifted strategy to a solid jong sau structure in the upper gate and started in pursuit on the centerline and manipulating bridge contact. I was getting in - not cleanly all the time, sometimes more crash and shove response and adjusting to the openings - but was able to key off that in getting some offense going and landing some strikes.

Cliff notes from the field on sparring. It's fun - new learning every day. Every opponent teaches you something.

Anyway, nothing to see here. Back to condescension, wing chun "DNA", and whose WCK is really WCK.

I just want to say awesome post.

[anerlich]

I do see a trend in the nogi competitions where the better competitors are gravitating to a neither leg forward stance and working from there. The reason being is that you can block the entry to the double leg easier by lowering your level and getting your forehead in the way of the entry.

I have to say I've been doing some of that myself, trying to set up so that if the guy wants to shoot he has to be worried about running into my forehead and in effect meeting a headbutt.

Only for grappling, though. If strikes are included you're going to get your head removed with that strategy.