Online madness

[BPWT]

Has anyone ever signed up for an online Wing Chun course?

As someone who trains in a club, has private lessons, meets friends from other MAs to workout with, I've also watched DVDs and sometimes found them to be educational and useful. A nice supplement you can return to for specific information.

But 'learning from the comfort of your own home'???

Yesterday, I stumbled upon this Wing Chun link. Having met the guy many years ago, I was dumbfounded by it... literally left shaking my head.

www.MasterCameron.com

At the time I met him he was one of the two head instructors in the UK for the EWTO (and I think 4th or 5th level technician).

For those not in the WT way of things, that is a very high grade - usually taking many years of hard training to reach.

How can someone who reaches such a grade hold true the idea that you can learn a martial art online?

"Guaranteed to get you there!"

[Wayfaring]

Yesterday, I stumbled upon this Wing Chun link. Having met the guy many years ago, I was dumbfounded by it... literally left shaking my head.

www.MasterCameron.com

Looks like some poor ******* went to Lloyd Irvin's MMA Mastermind Class, and has thus suffered immensely in poor business choices as a result.

[BPWT]

Looks like some poor ******* went to Lloyd Irvin's MMA Mastermind Class, and has thus suffered immensely in poor business choices as a result.

To be honest, I had never heard of Lloyd Irvin. But from the first page I clicked after a Google search, I fear I will be up all night reading this stuff.

With no disrespect meant to any American posters on the forum, the link I posted had, to me, a very American feel in its marketing. Apart from the fact that I think online learning is BS, I am also surprised that 'Master Cameron's' website doesn't include anything (in images or videos) to show you anything that he teaches/how he teaches, etc.

Anyways, I need to get back to Lloyd Irvin and the MMA Millionaires stuff

[Wayfaring]

With no disrespect meant to any American posters on the forum, the link I posted had, to me, a very American feel in its marketing.

Too general. No offense taken, but I'd refine this to more of an "American sleazeball feel" in marketing. I'm sure you're reading up on all that now It doesn't sit any better living in the US I'll guarantee you.

Apart from the fact that I think online learning is BS, I am also surprised that 'Master Cameron's' website doesn't include anything (in images or videos) to show you anything that he teaches/how he teaches, etc.

Anyways, I need to get back to Lloyd Irvin and the MMA Millionaires stuff

Once you make the poor choice to provide "Master Cameron" your email address, you will be relentlessly spammed by cheezy emails all leading up to selling you a DVD for $197. This is the pattern. Oh and all the copywriting in the emails and web pages will now sound like an infomercial with endorsements, testimonials, money-back guarantees, and opt-in upsells.

Direct Internet Marketing is what this is called. Just so that you can have a name to associate with the bad taste in your mouth.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I love watching and collecting DVD instructional BUT only ever get the ones from recognized master/champions in their fields.

Easy to do with MA OTHER than WC.

Let that sink in....

[k gledhill]

Online vt is ridiculous. Now press up against the screen and exchange force with me and roll two three four. ; )

[k gledhill]

Too general. No offense taken, but I'd refine this to more of an "American sleazeball feel" in marketing. I'm sure you're reading up on all that now It doesn't sit any better living in the US I'll guarantee you.



Once you make the poor choice to provide "Master Cameron" your email address, you will be relentlessly spammed by cheezy emails all leading up to selling you a DVD for $197. This is the pattern. Oh and all the copywriting in the emails and web pages will now sound like an infomercial with endorsements, testimonials, money-back guarantees, and opt-in upsells.

Direct Internet Marketing is what this is called. Just so that you can have a name to associate with the bad taste in your mouth.

There are all kinds of similar approaches in the USA. Guys become millionaires from volume of unknowing buyers. Caveat Emptor

[wingchunIan]

Looks like a pretty cheap production. I've seen far slicker marketing and it is devoid of all of the usual tasters, free samples etc that most online agencies will advise you to offer to get subscriptions. As Kevin said caveat emptor, can't fault the bloke for trying to make money but he could've put in a bit more effort.

[BPWT]

Looks like a pretty cheap production. I've seen far slicker marketing and it is devoid of all of the usual tasters, free samples etc that most online agencies will advise you to offer to get subscriptions. As Kevin said caveat emptor, can't fault the bloke for trying to make money but he could've put in a bit more effort.

I hear what you're saying, and what Kevin is saying too.... and sure there's no problem with someone trying to make money... but... I think there is fault in making money this way. If someone cares enough about Wing Chun/Wing Tsun to spend so many years studying it and teaching it, shouldn't they teach it in a better way?

I admit I wasn't overly impressed with Andrew Cameron when I met him, but if he claims to have any skill, it didn't come from an online program.

He could make money by being expensive - teach private lessons for large fees (Yip Man certainly did ) if he wants to, but to teach an art that is all about physical contact and hands-on understanding, via the web, or via DVD, and to claim he can "guarantee" someone results.

I don't know - it just sucks, to me. It seems like a trick for the gullible; offering results from a distance.

And yes - it looks cheap too, LOL.

[Lucas]

i clicked his website, after 10 seconds of looking at his video i decided i would not want to learn any martial arts from him.

i mean if you're going to try and sell a hands on course, without the hands on, at least look like a bad ass, not the stay puff marshmellow man

he very well may be a badass, but when your talking online sales, image/perception/display is pretty much everything.

its a residual deal. put some bs online for a few bucks, chum the water, and hope you get a few free bites.

[PalmStriker]

Correspondence Black Belt courses for other styles has been around for decades, I should think a WingChun GrandMaster course package is in the works already. Money is the honey.

[GlennR]

How is he any different to hendrik?

All online, no substance

[Grumblegeezer]

BPWT --I think supplemental online/dvd instruction would be very helpful. I just spent the better part of this afternoon studying dvds of my old escrima instructor, GM Latosa. It was almost like having a flashback to the 80's when I did most of my training with him.

I wish I had dvds of similar quality to review what I was taught by my old WT sifu. I bet a carefully worked out online curriculum would be a huge help to students who live far from their sifu and can only get direct instruction every few weeks or months. Online "homework" might reduce the inevitable errors and bad habits that creep into your training when your instructor is away.

Unfortunately, Mr. Cameron seems to be marketing a purely online program. There was no mention of also getting direct instruction at regular intervals, either from him or other qualified subordinate instructors. Considering his former rank and status in the EWTO, I am definitely disappointed. Such a "program" does seem like a fraudulent scheme. I hope I'm wrong.

[Grumblegeezer]

How is he any different to hendrik?

All online, no substance

C'mon. I've found Hendrik's kung fu very dangerous. If you let him, he'll definitely talk you to death, lol. But he's honest. Love him or hate him, he never charges anything.

[GlennR]

C'mon. I've found Hendrik's kung fu very dangerous. If you let him, he'll definitely talk you to death, lol. But he's honest. Love him or hate him, he never charges anything.

True, but i feel like ive paid a price listening to his constant drivel