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Thread: tendons, not muscle...

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Sports where plyo's tend to be PART of the sport ( or art form) tend to do them based on the individuals personal ability (progressive loading) and also age/experience ( ballet, gymnastics, etc).
    Basketball players are great leapers and most have been doing since they were kids and by the time that reach adulthood their muscles have been though years of "progressive loading" due to body weight increases and/or increase in frequency.

    Personally I think that when introducing plyo's to adults we have to be far more careful than when doing that to kids because, well, kids tend to be "plyo'ing" all over the place already, LOL.
    That was not my point however, I am saying it isn't necessary to be able to squat 1.5 x body weight in order to do plyos.

    Depth jumps probably its a good idea, box jumps not at all. Frog leaps, not at all.

    Any beginner at anything needs to start slow at any activity, so that point is neither here nor there.

    My point is, 1.5 x body weight is ridiculous, unless perhaps you weight over 200# and are doing depth jumps or hurdle jumps or something like that.

  2. #32
    And BTW,

    I have been a dancer, a tumbler and a martial artist. I've done plyos most of my life and I've NEVER squatted 1.5 x my body weight.

    Right now I am 54 years old, I weigh 200#, I have a serious hip injury and I still do plyos regularly without any ill effects. I have never squatted 300# in my life.

    So, if you guys want to puss out on your plyos until you can squat the prescribed amount feel free to short change yourselves.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    And BTW,

    I have been a dancer, a tumbler and a martial artist. I've done plyos most of my life and I've NEVER squatted 1.5 x my body weight.

    Right now I am 54 years old, I weigh 200#, I have a serious hip injury and I still do plyos regularly without any ill effects. I have never squatted 300# in my life.

    So, if you guys want to puss out on your plyos until you can squat the prescribed amount feel free to short change yourselves.
    oh the irony

    the base level is for two things, injury prevention and to get the most out of the activity, and considering the modern father of this type of training also advocated reaching a base level before using it ill go with him thanks

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    oh the irony

    the base level is for two things, injury prevention and to get the most out of the activity, and considering the modern father of this type of training also advocated reaching a base level before using it ill go with him thanks
    Of course do what you think best for yourself

    But,

    Considering plyo has been around for a couple of thousand years before your expert was wrong in his opinion, you are wasting your time.

    But you have to follow your own judgment, even when its wrong!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    The western take is the same as the eastern, just expressed (in words) differently and expressed in action in a sport specific manner.
    Simply because we tend to see it in sports more than anywhere else of course.
    It always stimulates a lot of thought and provides a bit of validity when we find common ground between western and eastern takes, and follow the thread.

    Happens a lot.
    Guangzhou Pak Mei Kung Fu School, Sydney Australia,
    Sifu Leung, Yuk Seng
    Established 1989, Glebe Australia

  6. #36
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    I've been dating a girl that did 25 years of Ballett, and I assure you guys, she can jump!
    Her squats are pretty good too.
    Oh, its so good to be me!

    BTW, I'm with Scott. Slow, progressive training. The word is that the Pak Mei training gives your tendons micro damage that constantly heals and repairs, over time building your tendons. Never dissected a Hing Dai before, but it makes sense.

    Likewise, movement in one direction followed by explosive power in a different direction loads the tendons.

    I think you guys are arguing over 'things you read' not things you did, and everybody is right, its just a matter of scale, speed of progress, and key muscle groups deemed more important by different sport physiologists dedicated to specific sports.
    Guangzhou Pak Mei Kung Fu School, Sydney Australia,
    Sifu Leung, Yuk Seng
    Established 1989, Glebe Australia

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Yum Cha View Post
    I've been dating a girl that did 25 years of Ballett, and I assure you guys, she can jump!
    Her squats are pretty good too.
    Oh, its so good to be me!

    BTW, I'm with Scott. Slow, progressive training. The word is that the Pak Mei training gives your tendons micro damage that constantly heals and repairs, over time building your tendons. Never dissected a Hing Dai before, but it makes sense.

    Likewise, movement in one direction followed by explosive power in a different direction loads the tendons.

    I think you guys are arguing over 'things you read' not things you did, and everybody is right, its just a matter of scale, speed of progress, and key muscle groups deemed more important by different sport physiologists dedicated to specific sports.
    kung fu emphasizes tendon strength because muscle grows faster than tendon and will rip the tendon. ancient china has no tendon surgery, once you rip it you are a useless cripple for life.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    kung fu emphasizes tendon strength because muscle grows faster than tendon and will rip the tendon. ancient china has no tendon surgery, once you rip it you are a useless cripple for life.
    I think even to this day tendon repair isn't even that perfect, I'm sure you still have pain and stuff not to mention the cost.

  9. #39
    I started doing plyos the first day of dance classes, the first day of gymnastic classes, the first day of martial arts classes, we even have a wu shu school nearby, one day I was walking by their window and what do you think I saw through their window?

    Well, I'll be hornswaggled, they were doing plyos!

    Too bad no one told any of these instructors their students had to squat 1.5 times their body weight BEFORE they should do plyos!

  10. #40
    As a b-boy I did a ton of explosive movements from the get go. Never got one serious injury. In gymnastics, same. I was careful and never reckless, but I still pushed hard. Results came relatively fast and with stretching, I always felt great after. I don't have a problem with weights, but if you can't do 100 push-ups, why increase the resistance? I'll take slick and agile any day.

    In wrestling, we never went near the sled until we had already pushed on each other for a year or two.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Yum Cha View Post
    The word is that the Pak Mei training gives your tendons micro damage that constantly heals and repairs, over time building your tendons.
    Not only Pak Mei but every single fitness exercise, even sex. The only way to build stronger fibbers is destroying the weak ones.

  12. #42

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  13. #43
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    Muscle strength and plyometrics are one aspect of explosive power.

    What methods and mechanisms of your functional training capitalize specifically on elasticity of human biomechanics as a system?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    Pretty cool when he flips the big one up and catches it on his shoulder.

    According to this site, 1 jin is about 1.102 pounds, so that 105 jin weight weighs 111.7 pounds.

    Squatting 111 pounds balanced on your shoulder looks quite tough.
    Last edited by IronFist; 07-13-2013 at 11:58 PM.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pazman View Post
    In fact, getting 1.5x bodyweight is a pretty simple process. I'd be very surprised if somebody practices martial arts for more than a year and hasn't geared their training to hit this relatively modest goal.
    I would be willing to bet that more than 50% of martial artists who train at a McDojo for more than a year cannot squat 1.5x bodyweight. But I don't mean the people who also strength train.

    Most people cannot squat 1.5x bodyweight, or even their own bodyweight, without specific strength training.
    Last edited by IronFist; 07-14-2013 at 12:02 AM.
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
    <BombScare> the end guy is hard.

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