Wing chun works too much against elbow down?

[Graham H]

All I am saying is that sparring elbows down vs elbows down all the time is not realistic for what you are likely to meet in a real fight.

Absolutely correct!

[lance]

Lance I think we are talking at cross purposes.

I am not criticising elbows down, it is essential for wing chun. All I am saying is that sparring elbows down vs elbows down all the time is not realistic for what you are likely to meet in a real fight. It is good to train sometimes vs boxing type punches.

guyb, well maybe you ' re right we ' re talking at cross points ,
what do you mean by cross points ? You talk like I don ' t understand you okay , but what does cross points mean ? Do you understand what I ' m writing as I ' m replying to your topic post ? When I first read topic post to this thread . it sounds like you were complaining about WC in general , so okay so I told you to explore other techniques in WC , that ' s why I ask you if you were learning WC?
So you were learning WC from who I don ' t know .

But anyway , I ' ve trained in WC too myself , I like the art myself too , but thinking about what you talking about , I don ' t spar with my elbows down all the time , I only react to what my partner is going to do to me . Well guy b, I hate to say this but maybe you don ' t understand how the art works , because when I do WC I don ' t keep my elbows down all the time , I only react to what my opponent is going to do to me . I ' ve read your topic post all the time , even I don ' t understand what you ' re trying to say on the your thread . If you like WC alot then there should be no complains about it . That ' s why I told you there should be technques in the 3 forms to solve your problem in WC , but you said you know about WC , you ' re not critiscizing WC , but still for you theres' a problem . And you tell me that I don ' t understand what you ' re saying ? Maybe you don ' t understand WC yourself . A person can act like he learns WC , but really not knowing anything about the art itself . And my guess is that you only like to roll over people , but not really know about WC itself .

And people fight the way they like right ? The elbows are down for a purpose like the way I explained to you in my previous reply to your thread post . So if I don ' t understand what you ' re really saying concerning WC , then maybe you don ' t understand WC yourself .

[guy b.]

guyb, well maybe you ' re right we ' re talking at cross points ,
what do you mean by cross points ? You talk like I don ' t understand you okay , but what does cross points mean ? Do you understand what I ' m writing as I ' m replying to your topic post ? When I first read topic post to this thread . it sounds like you were complaining about WC in general , so okay so I told you to explore other techniques in WC , that ' s why I ask you if you were learning WC?
So you were learning WC from who I don ' t know .

But anyway , I ' ve trained in WC too myself , I like the art myself too , but thinking about what you talking about , I don ' t spar with my elbows down all the time , I only react to what my partner is going to do to me . Well guy b, I hate to say this but maybe you don ' t understand how the art works , because when I do WC I don ' t keep my elbows down all the time , I only react to what my opponent is going to do to me . I ' ve read your topic post all the time , even I don ' t understand what you ' re trying to say on the your thread . If you like WC alot then there should be no complains about it . That ' s why I told you there should be technques in the 3 forms to solve your problem in WC , but you said you know about WC , you ' re not critiscizing WC , but still for you theres' a problem . And you tell me that I don ' t understand what you ' re saying ? Maybe you don ' t understand WC yourself . A person can act like he learns WC , but really not knowing anything about the art itself . And my guess is that you only like to roll over people , but not really know about WC itself .

And people fight the way they like right ? The elbows are down for a purpose like the way I explained to you in my previous reply to your thread post . So if I don ' t understand what you ' re really saying concerning WC , then maybe you don ' t understand WC yourself .

Ok dude, chill out. I'm sure you are correct and I am wrong.

[Yoshiyahu]

I think you hit the nail on the head...most people confuse body weight with structure...the mechanics are totally different. But you illustrated the fundamental differences between wing chun strikes and a boxers devasting hook power. I agree a tough right hook will have more power provided the boxer trains on a heavy bag and doesn't just shadow box...


Wing Chun fighters could have stronger punches if they utilize wall bags and wooden dummies!

Personally I would disagree. Punching with elbow out or up as in an overhand punch doesn't have structure but that doesn't mean it doesn't do a lot of damage. Wing chun punches rely on structure and short explosive straight line movement. Boxing techniques utilise rotation, body weight and generally bigger movements. Arm and shoulder muscle development is a must in boxing type striking due to the stresses on the limb imparted by the mechanics. In case anyone thinks I'm knocking boxing I'm certainly not, for the most part boxing punches are far more powerful than wing chun punches.

[Yoshiyahu]

Lance I think we are talking at cross purposes.

I am not criticising elbows down, it is essential for wing chun. All I am saying is that sparring elbows down vs elbows down all the time is not realistic for what you are likely to meet in a real fight. It is good to train sometimes vs boxing type punches.

When do you punch with the elbow up? Are you striking linear and convering or advancing upon your opponet with your elbows up?

[guy b.]

When do you punch with the elbow up? Are you striking linear and convering or advancing upon your opponet with your elbows up?

Elbows out, not up lol

[poulperadieux]

Bas Rutten, in his punching videos, recommands the elbow down.

I like Bas, so I follow his advice.

And he's also a Badass.

[Wayfaring]

Bas Rutten, in his punching videos, recommands the elbow down.

I like Bas, so I follow his advice.

And he's also a Badass.

And he has the best entertainment value street defense videos eva:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5fjmu4899c

"dangita, dangita, dangita"

[lance]

Wing chun utilises elbow down for reasons we all understand. Elbow down is vulnerable to certain strategies which wing chun works a lot, as well as some that wing chun doesn't work. Wing chun also works things that are not dependent on elbow down.

The problem is that virtually nobody punches elbow down in real life. How much of what is developed in wing chun is based on the assumption that the elbow will be down? How much is transferable to reality? Discuss.

guy b. the elbows are one part of the body where the power in WC comes from , besides the elbows you have the entire body , and including the stances . Because when you train in WC ? Then don ' t you think you ' re going to do the samething in the streets ? If not ? Why train in wing chun then ? In all of the CMA regardless of styles or systems , the use of power all comes from the stances which certain styles uses . When you practice the Sil Lum Tao you ' re also training your chi power too . And chi is what makes your physical power get stronger too .

And what strategies will work against WC ? So for you guy b. if you throw WC away , what will you do then ? Use your ordinary fighting skills whatever it may be ? To me learning WC makes you better at defending yourself effectively , so as the other methods of self defense in general . And if you don ' t know how to really defend yourself at all then , you going be wasting your time trying to beat up your opponent , when your opponent can either beat you . So it works both ways . If GM Ip Man was still alive today he would ' ve cleared your mine on WC .
Too bad he ' s dead .

[guy b.]

guy b. the elbows are one part of the body where the power in WC comes from , besides the elbows you have the entire body , and including the stances . Because when you train in WC ? Then don ' t you think you ' re going to do the samething in the streets ? If not ? Why train in wing chun then ? In all of the CMA regardless of styles or systems , the use of power all comes from the stances which certain styles uses . When you practice the Sil Lum Tao you ' re also training your chi power too . And chi is what makes your physical power get stronger too .

And what strategies will work against WC ? So for you guy b. if you throw WC away , what will you do then ? Use your ordinary fighting skills whatever it may be ? To me learning WC makes you better at defending yourself effectively , so as the other methods of self defense in general . And if you don ' t know how to really defend yourself at all then , you going be wasting your time trying to beat up your opponent , when your opponent can either beat you . So it works both ways . If GM Ip Man was still alive today he would ' ve cleared your mine on WC .
Too bad he ' s dead .

Lance.

L e t___m e ___s p e l l ___i t___o u t___f o r___y o u

I___l i k e___w i n g___c h u n

P l e a s e___s t o p___t y p i n g___i n c o h e r e n t___a n d___a n g r y___r e p l i e s

T h a n k y o u

[GlennR]

guy b. the elbows are one part of the body where the power in WC comes from , besides the elbows you have the entire body , and including the stances . Because when you train in WC ? Then don ' t you think you ' re going to do the samething in the streets ? If not ? Why train in wing chun then ? In all of the CMA regardless of styles or systems , the use of power all comes from the stances which certain styles uses . When you practice the Sil Lum Tao you ' re also training your chi power too . And chi is what makes your physical power get stronger too .

And what strategies will work against WC ? So for you guy b. if you throw WC away , what will you do then ? Use your ordinary fighting skills whatever it may be ? To me learning WC makes you better at defending yourself effectively , so as the other methods of self defense in general . And if you don ' t know how to really defend yourself at all then , you going be wasting your time trying to beat up your opponent , when your opponent can either beat you . So it works both ways . If GM Ip Man was still alive today he would ' ve cleared your mine on WC .
Too bad he ' s dead .

I'd suggest you read his original thread starter again, you'll realise he is for wing Chun but saying WC doesn't train much against elbow up/ out punches.

And the lecture approach really doesn't work

[Yoshiyahu]

Elbows out, not up lol

If the elbows out when you step into your opponents mass how do you strike him with the elbows out an not have your structure collaspe?

[guy b.]

If the elbows out when you step into your opponents mass how do you strike him with the elbows out an not have your structure collaspe?

Not in the context of wing chun striking. People strike elbows out all of the time, it is the natural way to hit

[Yoshiyahu]

Not in the context of wing chun striking. People strike elbows out all of the time, it is the natural way to hit

So if we are using our structure to deliver force...an we step into our opponents centre and deliver a strike would our elbows be out upon contact or down?

Which posistion maximizes structure linkage?

[guy b.]

So if we are using our structure to deliver force...an we step into our opponents centre and deliver a strike would our elbows be out upon contact or down?

Which posistion maximizes structure linkage?

Jesus, has a thread ever been more misunderstood?

I'm not talking about wing chun striking. Regular punching is generally elbow out, e.g. boxing. I am saying that wing chun doesn't tend to train enough against this. Ok?