Itinerant practitioner
Well..maybe you won't see evidence..because...where exactly are you looking?Originally Posted by LaRoux
Not impractical at all. I disagree. they are what they are. Everything is good and everything can change up.
I think you are premature and a bit of a blanket statement maker to say it's impractical. I'm pretty sure getting bonked in the chops with a backfist has some effect.
Kung Fu is good for you.
Defender of Truth
Funny how anytime you see a full contact fight there is never a backfist that has any effect that can be seen.Well..maybe you won't see evidence..because...where exactly are you looking?
Not impractical at all. I disagree. they are what they are. Everything is good and everything can change up.
I think you are premature and a bit of a blanket statement maker to say it's impractical. I'm pretty sure getting bonked in the chops with a backfist has some effect.
Cha Wang
Oh Dude, come out of your self-absorbed cave!
The Laceys wasted the entire town of Melbourne in a William Chen tournament using spinning backlists. The whole thing almost turned into a riot when in the middle of the thing they tried to outlaw the backfist.
woof.
Guangzhou Pak Mei Kung Fu School, Sydney Australia,
Sifu Leung, Yuk Seng
Established 1989, Glebe Australia
Registered User
Full contact events definitely have their merits. However, saying that something is impractical for the real world based upon its inclusion or omission in UFC type situations is short-sighted.
A "parry" or "catch" type of technique against jabs has been proven effective in real world encounters. This type of opening was one of Bruce Lee's favorites. Backfists flow nicely from these types of blocks and they can transition into a plethora of techniques such as chokes, locks, takedowns, etc., all of which are prevalent in full contact MMA competitions; but as TT said in a subsequent posting one doesn't need to limit oneself to a backfist. And I have talked to more than one law enforcement officer who has used a figure-four type of lock and takedown in real life.
Best,
Vernon
(. Y .)
Arm Lock Takedown
Defender of Truth
Spinning backfist is completely different than the pattycake backfists shown in the "trapping" demos at the beginning of this thread.
Last edited by LaRoux; 07-16-2013 at 02:22 PM.
Defender of Truth
That's a kimura. Perfectly legit armlock for a takedown.
The armlock takedown shown in the video is an Americana. Totally different and not legit for a takedown at all.
Last edited by LaRoux; 07-16-2013 at 02:23 PM.
Defender of Truth
Vernon,
Full contact does not mean UFC type events only. If those techniques actually worked, it would be very simple for the Ten Tiger guys to show them working in a full contact situation in their gym. Instead, the best they can do is show some patty cake with completely compliant partners.
Or how about you? Since you are claiming that they work, post your own clip of them working in a full-on sparring situation against resiting opponents. Very simple to do, since you are claiming these are legit.
Funny how everyone claims these techniques are valid, yet they can only make demos with them against complying opponents. Notice how you never see them used against resisting opponents in full contact settings.
Last edited by LaRoux; 07-16-2013 at 02:52 PM.
Defender of Truth
You guys really need to learn to differentiate between workable techniques that have evidence for being practical and bogus techniques like the ones that were shown in the original clip.
Shaolin Jinnaluo War Cult
Ahhh the return of LaRoux...I knew i sensed some dark presence....
By the by, backfist is a valid technique, I've used successfully in hard sparring many times...just think of it like a faster jab from a different angle...it's not meant as a finisher...
You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!
Registered User
It's much easier to use back fist to set up your next move than to use jab to set up your next move.
When you use
- jab, your opponent may dodge it.
- back fist, your opponent will have more intention to block it (if that's what you want him to do).
http://johnswang.com
More opinion -> more argument
Less opinion -> less argument
No opinion -> no argument
Registered User
A spinning backfist is completely different from the wing chun backfist shown by tentigers. The spinning backfist has way more power. The wrgument Larkin might be trying to make is that the short quick backfist in the video wouldn't be effective. If I knock you on the ground and move in to smash you using my backfist hat is still not the same as the original backfist of this thread.
Just sayin...
Registered User
I am a firm believer in the "pressure-testing" component of martial arts as well. Virtually all serious students of JKD whom I've encountered understand the importance of reality-based techniques. Full contact fighting events are beneficial for lots of reasons. Matt Larsen, the highly decorated and respected Army Ranger who developed the Combatives Program (MACP), utilizes ring competition due to the strong merits associated with such activity; not the least of which is the effective training of the mental component connected with martial arts and competition. However, he distinguishes that soldiers are not simply training for the ring, but rather the ring is merely one aspect of training to become part of the warrior group that comprises the military. The COMBATIVES program has a strong foundation in BJJ/CSW techniques.
Therefore, I reiterate that just because one doesn't see, on a frequent basis, a particular lock and/or takedown in professional ring competitions doesn't equate to those techniques not having a valuable place in a street-fight scenario where one statistically isn't going to go against a professional athlete who spends eight hours a day applying and countering grappling techniques. Furthermore, to suggest that not having video footage of applying certain locks/takedowns in a full-contact sparring match at a martial arts academy is proof that the technique doesn't work is faulty logic. But hey, to each his own. I'll continue working on my trapping and grappling since everything I have seen has been to my satisfaction of working in the real world.
Best,
Vernon
Cha Wang
Hows this? Not really full contact, but, well, friendly training.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqoV_ivujLM
1:04, Backfist
1:15 (similar take to the vid that started this)
1:30, just wait for it...
Guangzhou Pak Mei Kung Fu School, Sydney Australia,
Sifu Leung, Yuk Seng
Established 1989, Glebe Australia
Registered User
1.04 looks more like a rising hammer fist to me than a downward backfist (i personally don’t like the downwards backfist as it feels weak to me and ive never seen it as that effective) for me the hammer fist allows more hip and waist into the strike, and notice how the guy moves backwards when hit, making any type of standing lock hard to pull off?
At 1.15 i see a straight forward committed 1 2 strike down the centre through an open guard where the defenders left hand comes across to deal with the opponents left hand and leaves a channel for the right hand to come straight down (one of the reason i like to block out to in and not on the inside of a shot
Nice spinning backfist at the end which is a nice hard power shot and totally different from the downward backfist in terms of power generation
As for the video, (and i know its only a short clip and hard to judge people from) but i would say the guys looked much more comfortable without gloves than with them and more comfortable with body shots than heads shots, so id suggest taking the body armour and the open hand mits off and put on 16oz boxing gloves on and get more used to head shots and continuing the striking rather than stopping after each hit. Which you might very well already be doing but just on the merit of that clip thats what i see a bit lacking
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