Decent light sparring vid

[KPM]

I don't know who these guys are or what lineage they are from. Maybe someone who speaks Chinese can fill us in. Wing Chun facing various other styles in light glove-less sparring. Jerry sticks to his Wing Chun structure very well, Phillip not so much. Hendrik pointed this clip out to me. Particularly watch Jerry facing one of the Hsing I guys near the end of that section at the 6 minute mark. Jerry does a good job of "triangulating" right to the guys center, and keeping a relatively "unrooted" stance that allows him to be moved by the other guy without being overwhelmed, losing his structure and without losing contact with the opponent. This particular exchange is an example, to a small extent, of some of the things Hendrik has been talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxFsAaC4XK8

[guy b.]

I don't know who these guys are or what lineage they are from. Maybe someone who speaks Chinese can fill us in. Wing Chun facing various other styles in light glove-less sparring. Jerry sticks to his Wing Chun structure very well, Phillip not so much. Hendrik pointed this clip out to me. Particularly watch Jerry facing one of the Hsing I guys near the end of that section at the 6 minute mark. Jerry does a good job of "triangulating" right to the guys center, and keeping a relatively "unrooted" stance that allows him to be moved by the other guy without being overwhelmed, losing his structure and without losing contact with the opponent. This particular exchange is an example, to a small extent, of some of the things Hendrik has been talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxFsAaC4XK8

Jerry is really good. Philip is decent as well. This clip is hated by the mma contingent because the contact is not hard enough. Never satisfied.

[tc101]

I don't know who these guys are or what lineage they are from. Maybe someone who speaks Chinese can fill us in. Wing Chun facing various other styles in light glove-less sparring. Jerry sticks to his Wing Chun structure very well, Phillip not so much. Hendrik pointed this clip out to me. Particularly watch Jerry facing one of the Hsing I guys near the end of that section at the 6 minute mark. Jerry does a good job of "triangulating" right to the guys center, and keeping a relatively "unrooted" stance that allows him to be moved by the other guy without being overwhelmed, losing his structure and without losing contact with the opponent. This particular exchange is an example, to a small extent, of some of the things Hendrik has been talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxFsAaC4XK8

That point at the 6 minute mark you refer to they are not sparring that was a demonstration sort of this is what I would do.

The sparring was not very good. I could go into detail but going at speed does not make something decent or good.

A big difficulty in training is taking the stuff you do when practicing technique like from chi sao or lop sao or hitting mitts and so forth and transfering that to sparring. Boxers have figured it out but I do not think most traditional schools have and it looks like these guys haven't. It is just a sort of throw them in and have them try to spar. I think this is because most people teaching traditional arts have not gone through a sparring progression like boxing has so the teacher or trainer does not really have a good idea of what to do. Sean66 on an earlier thread talked about having a progression for sparring and that is essential. It is very easy to recognize guys that never had one.

Its funny that the description of the video talks about how sparring is not to knock the other guy out which is true but those guys were not even throwing head shots with closed fists.

[guy b.]

That point at the 6 minute mark you refer to they are not sparring that was a demonstration sort of this is what I would do.

The sparring was not very good. I could go into detail but going at speed does not make something decent or good.

A big difficulty in training is taking the stuff you do when practicing technique like from chi sao or lop sao or hitting mitts and so forth and transfering that to sparring. Boxers have figured it out but I do not think most traditional schools have and it looks like these guys haven't. It is just a sort of throw them in and have them try to spar. I think this is because most people teaching traditional arts have not gone through a sparring progression like boxing has so the teacher or trainer does not really have a good idea of what to do. Sean66 on an earlier thread talked about having a progression for sparring and that is essential. It is very easy to recognize guys that never had one.

Its funny that the description of the video talks about how sparring is not to knock the other guy out which is true but those guys were not even throwing head shots with closed fists.

This is the best example of wing chun used in a live environment on the internet. Show me a better one.

[Hendrik]

Could you please show us a YouTube or you practice Wck?
Practicing snt or chi sau or sparing....etc all is fine.

That point at the 6 minute mark you refer to they are not sparring that was a demonstration sort of this is what I would do.

The sparring was not very good. I could go into detail but going at speed does not make something decent or good.

A big difficulty in training is taking the stuff you do when practicing technique like from chi sao or lop sao or hitting mitts and so forth and transfering that to sparring. Boxers have figured it out but I do not think most traditional schools have and it looks like these guys haven't. It is just a sort of throw them in and have them try to spar. I think this is because most people teaching traditional arts have not gone through a sparring progression like boxing has so the teacher or trainer does not really have a good idea of what to do. Sean66 on an earlier thread talked about having a progression for sparring and that is essential. It is very easy to recognize guys that never had one.

Its funny that the description of the video talks about how sparring is not to knock the other guy out which is true but those guys were not even throwing head shots with closed fists.

[GlennR]

Could you please show us a YouTube or you practice Wck?
Practicing snt or chi sau or sparing....etc all is fine.

How about you show us you practising Wing Chun, all you do is put up constant videos with you talking and thats it, oh except the famous yoga ball display!

If he doesnt like the clip then he doesnt like the clip.... pretty simple really.

And FWIW, what would you know about sparring?

[tc101]

This is the best example of wing chun used in a live environment on the internet. Show me a better one.

I am sorry but I am not going to go through all the millions of videos of wing chun out there to find some that are better. Off hand I'd say the Orr guys fighting would be better.

When I look at sparring the first thing I look at is the movement or the form in action. When you see sloppiness and bad form it means they are going too fast or hard. The wing chun guys had bad form. For example they were not punching but slapping. Even when you go light you should do the same movement you would when going full out because you are practicing using your technique and form. When you throw out form and technique what are you then practicing? Also your opponent will react differently to a good shot thrown lightly and a slap.

The next thing I look at is the common mistakes people make thing like dropping their hands after striking, and so forth.

Then I look to see how they are taking advantage of the common mistakes by their opponent things like making him pay every time he drops his hand, and so forth.

Then I look to see the level of the set ups if any.

There is more but I think you get the idea.

When I see bad form, with many if the common mistakes being made, where they do not pounce on the other guys common mistakes, where there is really no set ups being used, I know the guys just have not trained their sparring. They may know the system and be able to use it well in drills but sparring is a whole different matter.

From looking at them I can tell that they never worked with a trainer that developed their sparring progressively since that works out those things I refer to.

[guy b.]

I am sorry but I am not going to go through all the millions of videos of wing chun out there to find some that are better. Off hand I'd say the Orr guys fighting would be better.

Your criticism is not worth worrying about if you can't find an example of wing chun done better to back up your claims. It should be easy with so many basic errors in this clip.

[KPM]

Jerry is really good. Philip is decent as well. This clip is hated by the mma contingent because the contact is not hard enough. Never satisfied.

Seems you got that right!

[tc101]

Your criticism is not worth worrying about if you can't find an example of wing chun done better to back up your claims. It should be easy with so many basic errors in this clip.

Don't worry about it then. But your reasoning of if you can't show me better that just mean it is good is not sound reasoning since it can all be bad or I can just not want to spend the time looking. You might be surprised that I watch normally zero wing chun videos. I only look when people post things on these threads.

I mention the Orr team as a good example since they are dealing with semi and pro level fighters they will not have those common mistakes otherwise they would be getting dropped constantly. So if you want examples there are some.

I took the time to explain what I see on that clip. Those are things I look for in any sparring that I see.

They may have a good grasp of wing chun but they have not worked with a good fight trainer and have not done much sparring.

[tc101]

Seems you got that right!

Actually just the opposite if I am one of the mma contingent. They are going too hard for their level.

[guy b.]

Don't worry about it then

I won't. It is easy to snipe, much more difficult to identify with something.

[tc101]

I won't. It is easy to snipe, much more difficult to identify with something.

No it is not that and I am not sniping since I gave a reasoned explanation based on my experience training with good boxing trainers for how to look at sparring and see the good and bad. Your come back is not discussion but a dismissive show me good wing chun or I will not listen. This is not about identifying with anyone but how to recognize good and bad in sparring. If you have not been through that training process yourself it is difficult to recognize.

[Hendrik]

So, what is the good or bad in boxing or sparring ? What to look?

No it is not that and I am not sniping since I gave a reasoned explanation based on my experience training with good boxing trainers for how to look at sparring and see the good and bad. Your come back is not discussion but a dismissive show me good wing chun or I will not listen. This is not about identifying with anyone but how to recognize good and bad in sparring. If you have not been through that training process yourself it is difficult to recognize.

[KPM]

That point at the 6 minute mark you refer to they are not sparring that was a demonstration sort of this is what I would do.

Are you watching the same video? The dude actually took off his glasses and hiked up his sleeves! This was not a demo. This was light sparring pure and simple.

The sparring was not very good. I could go into detail but going at speed does not make something decent or good.

Everyone's a critic. Not every post in this forum has to be in a negative tone! In that light bout with the Hsing I guy I saw Jerry maintain his Wing Chun structure, zoom in on the guy's center and stay there most of the time, make good enough contact a couple of times that if they were going hard it would have been a good blow, and stick to the guy even when he rushed in and tried to "bowl him over." Were mistakes made? Sure. A live scenario seldom plays out like one hopes. But Jerry did better than a whole lot of other Wing Chun footage posted out there.

A big difficulty in training is taking the stuff you do when practicing technique like from chi sao or lop sao or hitting mitts and so forth and transfering that to sparring. Boxers have figured it out but I do not think most traditional schools have and it looks like these guys haven't.

How do you know? They weren't wearing gloves and trying to take each other's heads off. These were friendly exchanges. You don't walk into someone else's school and try to kick the crap out of them. You don't ask someone if you can "compare hands" with them and then bust their nose by doing closed fist strikes to the face. If the truth was known, many of the famous "roof-top" bouts of Yip Man's era were very likely somewhat like this video clip. No one was trying to maim the other guy, and no protective equipment was used. These were "friendly exchanges" between people who do not train together and do not know each other. They were out to make friends not enemies. So lighten up!