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Thread: The problem with BJJ techniques

  1. #1
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    The problem with BJJ techniques

    http://www.alljujitsu.com/brazilianj...echniques.html

    I just came across this fire cracker...

    Sure you need to mix it up but just Japanese Judo?

    My vibe is that the whole BJJ thing was tested time and time again in open challenge matches against anyone, you can see the clips from the old days on YT.

    Thoughts...

  2. #2
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    Anytime you go for the opponent’s legs, you have no choice but to expose your head, neck and spine.

    If you train SC/Judo/wrestling and learn your "leg skill", you don't have to use your hands to go for your opponent's legs. You can use your right leg to hook your opponent's

    1. left leg from outside:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNtVlKPjcSA

    2. left leg from inside:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnYtwYH1ZMg

    3. right leg from inside:

    http://cdn2.judoinfo.com/images/anim...kouchigari.htm

    4. right leg from outside:

    http://cdn2.judoinfo.com/images/anim.../osotogari.htm
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 07-18-2013 at 02:50 AM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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  3. #3
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    Lol so many problems with this article its not funny

    Firstly BJJ takedowns mainly require both hands on the legs exposing yourself to strikes???? WHF?? Has he ever actually watched Royce rickson royler or any other BJJ blackbelt doing take downs, they suck at low shots and their main takedowns are body lock and dump or bodylock and trip takedowns, all great for the street, its wrestlers who normally actually shoot for the legs and good luck picking them apart with strikes as they go through you and end up spiking you on your head its all about momentum. As for the whole devastating stikes to the spine and back of the head, they were legal in both the early pride matches and UFCs, not to mention the valetudo in brazil and people still got taken down

    Secondly the guard.....why does everyone look at Royce in the early UFCs and assume what he did is what every single BJJ blackbelt does in a street fight:, go watch any rickson match for an example of how to use BJJ on the street, clinch to strikes and if that doesn’t finish him sweep/throw to mount to ground and pound...the guard is the best position to be in on your back, nowhere does anyone in BJJ say its the best position to be in on the ground, thats simply misinformed rubbish from guys like this who don’t know what they are talking about and are trying to sell a product which iasnt BJJ
    People still use the gaurd in MMA because gasp if you are on your back its better to have your legs between you and your opponent and keeping his weight off you than have him in mount pounding your face or in side control elbowing you to pieces, the gaurd allows you to disrpute his balance and also allows you to attack him, for every UFC match where the guy eats shots from the guard you see two matches where he manages to sweep and get back up, or submit the guy or atleast nullify the shots enough to not take too much damage

    As for the whole knife thing, at least on the ground you can control his movement and restrict what his arms do, standing unless you have a good clinch game you are going to get cut as well. Heck anywhere you are going to get cut and stabbed, most people have a clue about standing fighting so give them a knife standing and they will hurt you, almost no one understands ground fighting unless you have actually done it, so that might actually give you an advantage against someone with a knife, would i choice to go to the ground no, but if im there i might have a change to surviving because i actually know what to do down there

    To be honest that whole page reads like something from the late 90’s, i thought the martial arts world had moved on from this rubbish

  4. #4
    The only problem with BJJ nowadays is that it is becoming overspecialized, but that's true of every art. If you go back and watch the early stuff, it's just old school Judo, but new Judo isn't Judo if that's where you think my thought is going, because new Judo is overspecialized for sport too. There's a lot in BJJ to like, so there's no need to hate on it. Is it the cat's butt? In some ways yes, some ways no. The beauty is now we have a lot of choices and exposure to styles and things so we can tailor training to how we want to fight.

  5. #5
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    Haters be hatin. I was going to say the 90's called but someone beat me to it
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

  6. #6
    This is what Judo used to look like:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erQ7AVtcwec

    It is pure and plain Judo. Nothing special.

  7. #7
    Now look at the clip I just posted and a few of its associated clips and compare that to the Jiu Jitsu you see today. BJJ is definitely evolving. There's some negatives associated with that evolution because the early stuff was Judo for Vale Tudo, the new high level stuff is BJJ for BJJ tournaments. Nothing wrong with that, and I maintain that the best groundfighters will always be BJJ players, but they aren't unbeatable in a full contact MMA situation if you know the basics and don't make stupid mistakes.

  8. #8
    The real secret to BJJ's success is they train harder than everybody else. The competitive guys train 6 days a week, up to 4 hours per day, consistently roll and hard spar, take care of their physical health and nutrition, and when they're not training, they think about BJJ. They think about BJJ more than sex! Some even have to fight the urge to pass guard while in the midst of carnal pleasures!

    That is the real secret to BJJ.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    This is what Judo used to look like:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erQ7AVtcwec

    It is pure and plain Judo. Nothing special.
    Kosen Judo:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdrFg--suFE
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    The only problem with BJJ nowadays is that it is becoming overspecialized
    Can you elaborate?
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    The real secret to BJJ's success is they train harder than everybody else. The competitive guys train 6 days a week, up to 4 hours per day, consistently roll and hard spar, take care of their physical health and nutrition, and when they're not training, they think about BJJ. They think about BJJ more than sex! Some even have to fight the urge to pass guard while in the midst of carnal pleasures!

    That is the real secret to BJJ.
    Will this be in your upcoming book "Inside the Family: The Secrets to BJJ THEY Don't Want You to Know About"? Can I pre-order for 5 easy payments of $6.99?
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kymus View Post
    Can you elaborate?
    Get a subscription to a Jiu Jitsu magazine. It's no secret, a lot of high level BJJers discuss this stuff regularly. That's why there's this trend to get back to the self defense roots of BJJ. Read the trade rags. There's a lot of Gi Jiu Jitsu moves that only work in their competitive environment under certain rules. Same can be said of any martial art though.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kymus View Post
    Will this be in your upcoming book "Inside the Family: The Secrets to BJJ THEY Don't Want You to Know About"? Can I pre-order for 5 easy payments of $6.99?
    Yes, but really it'll just be paraphrasing and a plagiarism of Kimura's "My Judo".

  14. #14
    http://judoinfo.com/kimura2.htm

    my favorite line from the book:

    I then hit his right arm hard with knife hand, and then threw him into the river by Seoi-nage. The other two were watching this scene in amazement, but charged at me one by one. I delivered a head butt into the face of the third man. He was knocked out. I disposed of the last man by squeezing his balls with full force. Ever since I was in junior high, I have been called Master Groin Squeezer, and had absolute confidence in this technique.

  15. #15
    Everybody should read this part:

    "My Judo" (Part 2)

    by Masahiko Kimura

    After I returned from Hawaii, I went to Brazil by the invitation of Sao Paulo Shinbun (Note: local Japanese newspaper company in Sao Paulo). Sao Paulo Shinbun, which was in a slump, came up with an idea of doing pro wrestling to revive their business. The period of contract was 4 months. The participants were I, Yamaguchi, and Kato 5th dan. This enterprise was a big success. Wherever we went, the arena was super-packed. This made Pres. Mizuno of Sao Paulo Shinbun very happy. When we asked for a pay raise, he tripled our original pay on the spot. In addition to pro wrestling, we gave judo instruction wherever we went.

    One day, Helio Gracie, judo 6th dan, issued a challenge to us. The rule of the bout was different from that of judo or pro wrestling. The winner was decided by submission only. No matter how cleanly a throw is executed or how long Osaekomi lasts, it does not count. He issued a challenge to Kato 5th dan first. The gong rang. Kato was in good condition, and threw Helio a number of times. However, past 15 minute mark, I started to see frustration in Kato's face. The throws had no damage on Helio since the mat was soft. At 30 min mark, it was evident that Kato was tired. "What's the matter, Kato, go to Newaza, don't stand up!" Japanese audience yelled. Kato then threw Helio down by O-soto-gari, mounted on Helio, and started Juji-jime. The audience roared with excitement. But, as I watched carefully, Helio was also applying a choke from below. They were trying to choke out each other. This lasted about 3 or 4 minutes. Kato's face started to turn pale. I shouted, "Stop!" to the referee, and jumped into the ring. When Helio released his hands, Kato collapsed onto the mat, face first. Two days after this bout, I saw Helio's students marching down a city street carrying a coffin. They were shouting, "Dead Japanese judoka Kato is in this coffin. He got killed by Helio. We ask your support for Judo Master Helio Gracie!"

    After this bout, the popularity of our pro wrestling show declined rapidly. The Japanese whom we encountered on the street murmured, "They must be phonies, losing in such a pathetic manner." Helio issued another challenge, this time to Yamaguchi. Pres. Mizuno of Sao Paulo Newspaper also begged, "Mr. Yamaguchi, please kill Helio, this time." But Yamaguchi seemed reluctant, and asked "Let me think for one night." If he fought a judo match under the Japanese rule, Yamaguchi is superior to Helio both in Tachi-waza and Newaza. But under the Brazilian rule, if Helio got pinned on the ground, all he has to do is to stay calm and be cautious not to get caught in a choke or joint lock, and remain still till the time runs out. Helio could fight to a draw in this way. If he used this tactics, it would be difficult for Yamaguchi to make Helio surrender. I then said to Yamaguchi, "Do not bother to come up with a plan to make Helio submit. I will accept the challenge." Until the day of the bout, we continued pro wrestling shows every other day. 3 days before the bout, local newspaper had a big headline, saying "Kimura is not a Japanese. He seems to be a Cambodian. Helio cannot fight a fake Japanese." I was surprised to see it. I rushed to the Embassy of Japan with my passport, and got a proof that I am a Japanese.


    20,000 people came to see the bout including President of Brazil. Helio was 180cm and 80kg. When I entered the stadium, I found a coffin. I asked what it was. I was told, "This is for Kimura. Helio brought this in." It was so funny that I almost burst into laughter. As I approached the ring, raw eggs were thrown at me. The gong rang. Helio grabbed me in both lapels, and attacked me with O-soto-gari and Kouchi-gari. But they did not move me at all. Now it's my turn. I blew him away up in the air by O-uchi-gari, Harai-goshi, Uchimata, Ippon-seoi. At about 10 minute mark, I threw him by O-soto-gari. I intended to cause a concussion. But since the mat was so soft that it did not have much impact on him. While continuing to throw him, I was thinking of a finishing method. I threw him by O-soto-gari again. As soon as Helio fell, I pinned him by Kuzure-kami-shiho-gatame. I held still for 2 or 3 minutes, and then tried to smother him by belly. Helio shook his head trying to breathe. He could not take it any longer, and tried to push up my body extending his left arm. That moment, I grabbed his left wrist with my right hand, and twisted up his arm. I applied Udegarami. I thought he would surrender immediately. But Helio would not tap the mat. I had no choice but keep on twisting the arm. The stadium became quiet. The bone of his arm was coming close to the breaking point. Finally, the sound of bone breaking echoed throughout the stadium. Helio still did not surrender. His left arm was already powerless. Under this rule, I had no choice but twist the arm again. There was plenty of time left. I twisted the left arm again. Another bone was broken. Helio still did not tap. When I tried to twist the arm once more, a white towel was thrown in. I won by TKO. My hand was raised high. Japanese Brazilians rushed into the ring and tossed me up in the air. On the other hand, Helio let his left arm hang and looked very sad withstanding the pain.

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