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Thread: The problem with BJJ techniques

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kymus View Post
    Can you elaborate?
    So I guess this would be the root of your question and the answer:

    If he fought a judo match under the Japanese rule, Yamaguchi is superior to Helio both in Tachi-waza and Newaza. But under the Brazilian rule, if Helio got pinned on the ground, all he has to do is to stay calm and be cautious not to get caught in a choke or joint lock, and remain still till the time runs out. Helio could fight to a draw in this way. If he used this tactics, it would be difficult for Yamaguchi to make Helio surrender.
    A lot of the really old school Judoka (60 plus yrs of age guys) have low opinions of BJJ because they feel the BJJers gave up on Tachi-waza. The typical response in class to "what should we do if we have fight a BJJer?" was "slam them on their head".

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    So I guess this would be the root of your question and the answer:



    A lot of the really old school Judoka (60 plus yrs of age guys) have low opinions of BJJ because they feel the BJJers gave up on Tachi-waza. The typical response in class to "what should we do if we have fight a BJJer?" was "slam them on their head".
    I gotcha, so essentially they train for the rules in their sport?
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kymus View Post
    I gotcha, so essentially they train for the rules in their sport?
    Yes, but so does every martial art. Don't get me wrong, BJJ is great for self defense and the ring, and it is a proven winner - it has its flaws just like everything else.

    -

    Anyway - you got to learn a little BJJ (how much is the minimum... I don't know) to be relevant as a martial artist in the nowadays. That much is a fact.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    Yes, but so does every martial art. Don't get me wrong, BJJ is great for self defense and the ring, and it is a proven winner - it has its flaws just like everything else.

    -

    Anyway - you got to learn a little BJJ (how much is the minimum... I don't know) to be relevant as a martial artist in the nowadays. That much is a fact.
    I agree 100%. I think it's foolhardy to only train within the rules. If anything, train outside the rules 90% of the time and train within the rules (for competition) 10% of the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    BJJers gave up on Tachi-waza.
    The moment you use a throw on your BJJ opponent, his body will become "noodle". He tries to go down with you and then roll you over. Since your opponent has no body structure, the "软(Ruan) - soft" is the best defense against big throwing. So you don't intend to use big throws and keep balance, you will use sacrifice throw so your will end with your body on top in better position. This trand will not be good for the future of the throwing art.

    If you train BJJ and not cross train SC/Judo/wrestling, not only your throwing skill is weak, you will never develop that "throwing resistance" ability. It's like a strike never develops that powerful hook. It won't be complete IMO.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 07-18-2013 at 11:03 AM.
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  6. #21
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    At about 10 minute mark, I threw him by O-soto-gari. I intended to cause a concussion. But since the mat was so soft that it did not have much impact on him.

    I always like this old Judo movie that the master just threw everybody into the river.

    http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTg3MzkyNTY4.html (start from 7.00)
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 07-18-2013 at 11:58 AM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    If you train BJJ and not cross train SC/Judo/wrestling, not only your throwing skill is weak, you will never develop that "throwing resistance" ability. It's like a strike never develops that powerful hook. It won't be complete IMO.
    To be fair the sport BJJ competitive schools usually will cross train one of the 3. If the school is focused on the gi, it's usually judo. If it is focused on MMA and nogi, it's usually wrestling.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    The real secret to BJJ's success is steroids. That is the real secret to BJJ.
    fixedthatferya

  9. #24

    The problem with BJJ techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Blacktiger View Post
    http://www.alljujitsu.com/brazilianj...echniques.html

    I just came across this fire cracker...

    Sure you need to mix it up but just Japanese Judo?

    My vibe is that the whole BJJ thing was tested time and time again in open challenge matches against anyone, you can see the clips from the old days on YT.

    Thoughts...
    Blacktiger , YouKnowWho is right about , what he said about BJJ techniques . For me my opinion towards grappling is that it ' s mainly used for tournament competitions . But for street fighting I would ' nt recommend it . If I were to just grapple with my opponent on the streets , chances are it ' ll turn into a chess game and it would not end , unless I break his leg or arm , when the moment arises . I ' m more of a standing up striker , I would wait until the opponent reaches for my leg while , I make a move by stepping back , then from there I would hold his head down and from there move in on the opponent .

    When I talk about chess game I mean you apply a move to lock your opponent , and your opponent does the samething to you , to me it ' s all wasted energy right there , I would rather just knock the opponent out when I have the chance or hurt him , then I can survive the situation .

    Because you can apply a grappling lock on your opponent to control him , but how far are going , sooner or later your opponent is going to try another move to get out of it . I would just try to knock him out or break his arm . If my opponent is threathened by the way I lock him up , and walks away then it ' s okay . But what if the opponent tries to retaliate against me . So that ' s why I ' m not in favor of BJJ . I would just use the BJJ techniques to hurt the opponent .

    And what if you were surrounded by multiple opponent the BJJ techniques would 'nt work , so that ' s where the striking arts come into place . to some people fighting multiple opponents may seem crazy and stupid , but what if it happens to any of us ? I would just go into the domino strategy , where you deal with the first opponent you block his punch if he throws a punch at your face , instead of moving in when you can get hit by the 2nd opponnent , you simply control the body of the first opponent and drag the body of the first opponent into the attacking path of the 2nd opponent , and so on . If you can find a weapon of anything then use it , it ' s simply your own life your trying to save . But there are other ways too to deal with multiple opponents , but I ' ll let you people figure it out .

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lance View Post
    Blacktiger , YouKnowWho is right about , what he said about BJJ techniques . For me my opinion towards grappling is that it ' s mainly used for tournament competitions . But for street fighting I would ' nt recommend it . If I were to just grapple with my opponent on the streets , chances are it ' ll turn into a chess game and it would not end , unless I break his leg or arm , when the moment arises . I ' m more of a standing up striker , I would wait until the opponent reaches for my leg while , I make a move by stepping back , then from there I would hold his head down and from there move in on the opponent .

    When I talk about chess game I mean you apply a move to lock your opponent , and your opponent does the samething to you , to me it ' s all wasted energy right there , I would rather just knock the opponent out when I have the chance or hurt him , then I can survive the situation .

    Because you can apply a grappling lock on your opponent to control him , but how far are going , sooner or later your opponent is going to try another move to get out of it . I would just try to knock him out or break his arm . If my opponent is threathened by the way I lock him up , and walks away then it ' s okay . But what if the opponent tries to retaliate against me . So that ' s why I ' m not in favor of BJJ . I would just use the BJJ techniques to hurt the opponent .

    And what if you were surrounded by multiple opponent the BJJ techniques would 'nt work , so that ' s where the striking arts come into place . to some people fighting multiple opponents may seem crazy and stupid , but what if it happens to any of us ? I would just go into the domino strategy , where you deal with the first opponent you block his punch if he throws a punch at your face , instead of moving in when you can get hit by the 2nd opponnent , you simply control the body of the first opponent and drag the body of the first opponent into the attacking path of the 2nd opponent , and so on . If you can find a weapon of anything then use it , it ' s simply your own life your trying to save . But there are other ways too to deal with multiple opponents , but I ' ll let you people figure it out .
    you really...and i mean really need to do some grappling

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymus View Post
    I agree 100%. I think it's foolhardy to only train within the rules. If anything, train outside the rules 90% of the time and train within the rules (for competition) 10% of the time.
    why on earth would anyone do this, i mean you grapple because you like it and want to compete, so why would you spend 90% of your training time training stuff you cant use in competition or in sparring, when the chances of actually ever having to use this on the street is so low its not even funny?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    So I guess this would be the root of your question and the answer:



    A lot of the really old school Judoka (60 plus yrs of age guys) have low opinions of BJJ because they feel the BJJers gave up on Tachi-waza. The typical response in class to "what should we do if we have fight a BJJer?" was "slam them on their head".
    and the BJJ guys have a low opinion of most modern judo guys as they feel they have given up Neiwaza

    And those 60 year old plus guys, well ask them their opinion on the current rules in judo lol

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    Everybody should read this part:
    its amazing Kimuras account talks all about the mats and mentions nothing about him saying if helio lasted more than 5 minutes or so (cant remember the exact time frame) he would consider it his victory, helio mentions all about the time frame thing but nothing about the mats, kimura talks about kato throwing helio and mounting and dominating him, and helio talks about chokeing him out in under 6 mintues so whose account do we believe? Under the rules they fought and agreed to helio won the first match and lost the second

    And so what helio fought the greatest judo player the world has seen, and helped develop a system which has surpassed judo in terms of ground work and in terms of its ability to be used without the gi and with and without strikes. And whilst BJJJ is evolving and growing, judo is turnig in on itsself and changing the rules to keep people outside judo from wanting to compete..............

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    why on earth would anyone do this, i mean you grapple because you like it and want to compete, so why would you spend 90% of your training time training stuff you cant use in competition or in sparring, when the chances of actually ever having to use this on the street is so low its not even funny?
    To me it's very important to be as well rounded of a fighter as possible. This is why I train northern, southern, close range, long range, standing and ground, etc.

    I feel like if you train only based on the rules, then that creates a weakness. Until I did JJ, I never thought about grabbing the opponent's clothes to control them. I never thought about it because that's just how I was training.
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymus View Post
    To me it's very important to be as well rounded of a fighter as possible. This is why I train northern, southern, close range, long range, standing and ground, etc.

    I feel like if you train only based on the rules, then that creates a weakness. Until I did JJ, I never thought about grabbing the opponent's clothes to control them. I never thought about it because that's just how I was training.
    No one said anything about just training for the rules, but you have it ass backwards 90% should be done to the rules, 10% (if that) not otherwise why bother training the art why not just make your own thing up

    and in spending your 90% time practising illegal street stuff you wont get any better because the coaches wont bother with you, why should they they want to teach grapplin gand have people compete not street deadly stuff, if they wanted to teach that they would teach JKD lol

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