The problem with BJJ techniques

[MightyB]

Excessive prioritization on "grip work" has, IMO, been a mess for Judo.
They take more time getting and fighting grips then in actual attempts to throw and counter throws.

This is part of the reason for the rules change. The idea is to create more "grip and go" throwing and penalize stalling tactics.

[sanjuro_ronin]

This is part of the reason for the rules change. The idea is to create more "grip and go" throwing and penalize stalling tactics.

One hopes.
Maybe time limits for inactivity or time limits the moment you grip?
Or maybe allow for punching, that always makes grip work interesting

[MightyB]

One hopes.
Maybe time limits for inactivity or time limits the moment you grip?
Or maybe allow for punching, that always makes grip work interesting

Penalized with Shido:

-Breaking the grip with two hands
-Cross gripping should be followed with an immediate attack, same for belt gripping, and one side gripping
-The referee should strictly penalize the contestants who do not engage in a quick kumikata grip or who try not to be gripped by the opponent

-to hug opponent for the throw (bear hug)

[YouKnowWho]

Excessive prioritization on "grip work" has, IMO, been a mess for Judo.
They take more time getting and fighting grips then in actual attempts to throw and counter throws.

This apply to SC as well. Old Chinese saying said, "It's OK to lose in throwing. It's not OK to lose in grip fight." In SC, you should spend 80% of your effort to obtain the grips that you need and don't alow your opponent to get the grips that he needs. This is very hard to do because you have 2 arms and your opponent also has 2 arms. The grip fighting game will need a plan.

If you have

1. 2 grips on your opponent, your opponent also has 2 grips on you, you break his grips.
2. 1 grips on your opponent, your opponent also has 1 grip on you, you break his grips.
3. 2 grips on your opponent, your opponent only has 1 grip on you, you attack.
4. 1 grips on your opponent, your opponent has no grip on you, you attack.

Since to achieve 3 or 4 is very difficult, that's why the grip fight will take 80% of your wrestle time. If you can achieve that, when you attack, you will have better chance to win.

Here is how a SC guy will do in grip fight. You can truly put your opponent in defense mode. It takes a lot of energy out of you, but the reward is worthy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHuGe...ature=youtu.be

I don't like to tangle with my opponent. When nobody can do anything, it's just waste time and strength.

[YouKnowWho]

This is part of the reason for the rules change. The idea is to create more "grip and go" throwing and penalize stalling tactics.

In SC rules, if a grip deadlock happens for 5 seconds, the referee will break 2 guys apart and start all over again.

In one Taiwan SC tournament during the final championship fight, 2 guys were all afraid to make a move. All 3 rounds were tie. It was extended for a extra round and it was still a tie. My teacher was so mad. He disqualified the 1st place and 2nd place. He moved the 3rd place to the 1st place and the 4th place to the 2nd place.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I find grip work over-specialized and only really applicable in jacket grappling with no strikes.
YES, grip work is crucial in any throwing art BUT the over-emphasize on getting and countering it as opposed to getting and throwing happens because, well, no one is hitting you in the face and body or clinching to strike.

[YouKnowWho]

Or maybe allow for punching, that always makes grip work interesting

This is why the moment that you have stepped into Sanda/Sanshou, you don't want to go back to SC/Judo/wrestling. Today a pure SC tournament just don't interest me any more.

One of my guys has 15 years in wrestling. When I worked with him, we worked in no-jacket environment only. He went to compete SC tournament and found that he had problem to deal with SC jack grips. When he came back, I had debate against myself. Should I go back to the SC jacket training, or shoud I just move on and continue my no-jacket training.

It makes sense to move forward. It doesn't make sense to move backward. After you have finished college (kick, punch, throw integration), to read your high school book (throwing skill development) is just not that interest.

[YouKnowWho]

I find grip work over-specialized and only really applicable in jacket grappling with no strikes.
YES, grip work is crucial in any throwing art BUT the over-emphasize on getting and countering it as opposed to getting and throwing happens because, well, no one is hitting you in the face and body or clinching to strike.

That's the problem. If you only stay in your own SC circle, you may think the grip fight is important. The moment that you step out of that circle, there are other things that's much more important. This is why I had replaced "grip fight" with arm wrap, head lock, over hook, under hook, bear hug, waist surround, ... in the past many years.

When 2

- Taiji guys play push hands and not integrate striking, or
- WC guys play sticky hands and not integrate throwing,

there is somthing wrong in their skill development path. They are not thinking about the big picture IMO.

[Kevin73]

Articles like this are always too broad to be applicable.

The Judo school I trained at spent 50% on the ground and 50% working on throws.

The BJJ school that I trained at spent 100% on the ground and all rolling was done from the knees and NO takedowns/throws were practiced.

I'm sure others can find exceptions to all schools within systems. It doesn't mean the system has flaws, it means that particular instructor or school has some flaws.

[Blacktiger]

I heard some guys who train Kung Fu the other day say...

BJJ is no good they don't allow strikes to the eyes, throat, groin.

I get sick of hearing this stuff its so dumb...

If you have skills in other arts and you start some BJJ..... are you not going to work them into the BJJ?

[Dragonzbane76]

its just ignorance. people whom have no experience in areas saying things they don't fully understand.

"what you don't understand, you fear." or something of that nature.

[LaRoux]

Well , you ' re entitled to your own opinion , frost . I did grappling , but not the way you people do it . I don ' t play chess game like you people do , I would rather just submit the person and that ' s it .

Like the others have said, you have no clue about grappling, or fighting at all, for that matter. If you had half a clue you would know that grappling is only a chess game when both combatants are at close to the same skill level. Standup is also a chess game if both combatants are close to the same skill level.

[PalmStriker]

Wrong. In stand up fight you have already lost if you are thinking long game strategic strategy. Fact.

[TenTigers]

hey..speaking of BJJ..

just got my blue belt.

[MightyB]

This is part of the reason for the rules change. The idea is to create more "grip and go" throwing and penalize stalling tactics.

Been watching the highlights from the World Championships in Brazil. I think the rules change has impacted the sport in a positive way. I'm seeing a lot of good, fast matches ending in definitive Ippons from throws. Very cool to watch.