WSL PB VT Brooklyn

[WC1277]

How do you join it to your stance? Wayfaring puts the elbow in line with the nipple.

I really want to hear what Phillipp Bayer was teaching Kevin about wu because it sounds interesting.

Joy can correct me if I'm off but I touched on it in this earlier post I wrote below:

We don't force our elbow in, like it appears VT and some others do, and a lot of it depends on the body profile of the individual as well. We practice it in a natural position where muscle tension is neutralized.

A good way to test natural position is to have your arm at your side, and with avoiding raising your shoulder and twisting the body, reach out to a full extend and grab or touch something on your center line. Now keeping the same pathway retreat your hand to the wu sao position. This is the "outside elbow line" position. Now from this position rotate to tan sau. You will notice that your elbow rotates inward. This is the "inside elbow line". If you do it this way you will notice that in Sil Lum Tao the fok sau is on what is the "middle/neutral elbow line". This is the line that we place our forward hand in the WC guard position on.

What this "natural" positioning does is allow you to, not only have a wider "shield" so to speak, but these elbow lines are really the bread and butter of good WC. If you noticed, when transitioning from wu sao to tan sau there's a spiraling motion involved. That motion is involved in every WC transition if you treat your elbow this way and is the basis of the "cutting edge" concept which is a whole nother topic in and of it self. This unified spiraling motion between the elbow and the hand is naturally the most efficient way to dissipate force. Combine it with the "bracing" footwork concept and you have the strongest example of structure available to dissipate force. This structure isn't unique to WC by the way and is found throughout nature and industry.

Anyway, by developing that type of structure, it becomes very easy for one to translate it even when the elbow may rise in a conflict against a non WC person.

You can test it for yourself. There's an optimal horizontal range while on this elbow line where you can hold a wu sau that maximizes structural strength without muscle. Also, there's a vertical range as well. Too high or too low and you have to start to switch to a different rotation/position of the outside forearm bone to retain the strength. Also the way the force comes in matters too. Wu sau generally is a redirection technique that welcomes and "assists", not a "shoot forward" type of technique you see so many do. Food for thought...It never comes forward in any of the forms either.

[Vajramusti]

How do you join it to your stance? Wayfaring puts the elbow in line with the nipple.

I really want to hear what Phillipp Bayer was teaching Kevin about wu because it sounds interesting.

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-Then Kevin has the floor.
Take it away Kevin.

[k gledhill]

Joy can correct me if I'm off but I touched on it in this earlier post I wrote below:




You can test it for yourself. There's an optimal horizontal range while on this elbow line where you can hold a wu sau that maximizes structural strength without muscle. Also, there's a vertical range as well. Too high or too low and you have to start to switch to a different rotation/position of the outside forearm bone to retain the strength. Also the way the force comes in matters too. Wu sau generally is a redirection technique that welcomes and "assists", not a "shoot forward" type of technique you see so many do. Food for thought...It never comes forward in any of the forms either.

Wrong it does start forwards, so it can intercept speed. The work that goes into it is so it doesn't collapse back under this exchange. A common error in use is to try and go backwards or try to simply defend from bad positions. Angling while using this is essential. Joys ideas are shallow pivoting chi sao not fighting at lightning speeds.

[WC1277]

Wrong it does start forwards, so it can intercept speed. The work that goes into it is so it doesn't collapse back under this exchange. A common error in use is to try and go backwards or try to simply defend from bad positions. Angling while using this is essential. Joys ideas are shallow pivoting chi sao not fighting at lightning speeds.

Where did I say it can't "start" forwards??? If you shoot it out to meet the attack, well, that's another story... sorry, we don't arm chase...

btw I don't know why you think we can't move at "lightning speeds". There's a difference between training with timing and just trying to be fast. Every time I see one of your "shared" videos I count the timing and sure enough it's predictable and right on spot every time. Don't you realize that if all you do is, switch one arm back and forth and try to attack, the main timing you're doing 90% of the time is "create timing"? You do "break timing" the other 10% and it's usually incidental. PB owns you guys because of timing, hands down, and less because of your technique. The majority of the time he's using "double/delayed timing" and confusing the hell out of you when he switches back to "regular timing". The only thing "lightning fast" about you guys is the speed at which you allow yourself to be owned TRYING to be fast...

[Vajramusti]

Joy can correct me if I'm off but I touched on it in this earlier post I wrote below:




You can test it for yourself. There's an optimal horizontal range while on this elbow line where you can hold a wu sau that maximizes structural strength without muscle. Also, there's a vertical range as well. Too high or too low and you have to start to switch to a different rotation/position of the outside forearm bone to retain the strength. Also the way the force comes in matters too. Wu sau generally is a redirection technique that welcomes and "assists", not a "shoot forward" type of technique you see so many do. Food for thought...It never comes forward in any of the forms either.

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Good points but it will fall on deaf KG ears. But if "guy "wants to hear KG's pov--that's the way it goes. Remember Mrs Murphy's 3rd law- never argue with KG , people may not know the difference.

[Graham H]

I really want to hear what Phillipp Bayer was teaching Kevin about wu because it sounds interesting.

Many things can get lost in translation. Kev has experienced it so in his head it will be clear. For those that haven't it will be vague at best and incorrect conclusions will be drawn.

Better to go and see first hand what this guy has to offer. Text and videos are pretty pointless and prove little.

[guy b.]

Many things can get lost in translation. Kev has experienced it so in his head it will be clear. For those that haven't it will be vague at best and incorrect conclusions will be drawn.

Better to go and see first hand what this guy has to offer. Text and videos are pretty pointless and prove little.

Yes you are right, always better to experience in person.

However Kevin started on some kind of structure in wu explanation that sounded interesting and I'm just hoping he continues it. I'm not arguing, just would like to hear the PB take on it.

[guy b.]

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Good points but it will fall on deaf KG ears. But if "guy "wants to hear KG's pov--that's the way it goes. Remember Mrs Murphy's 3rd law- never argue with KG , people may not know the difference.

Thanks for the vote of confidence "Joy". I haven't really got a dog in this fight and am happy to hear anyone's take on the issue. I was interested in Kevin's because he was impressed by the insight PB offered to him at the seminar. Why wouldn't I want to know about it?

I am also grateful for you and your student posting alternative explanations and maybe providing contrast that will spark discussion, thankyou.

[Graham H]

Yes you are right, always better to experience in person.

However Kevin started on some kind of structure in wu explanation that sounded interesting and I'm just hoping he continues it. I'm not arguing, just would like to hear the PB take on it.

Its up to him if he wants to explain more. As I belong to the same lineage it's easy for me to understand. A lot of Kev's posts are excellent but in other peoples eyes they are not taken as such. That's because they don't understand what he is saying because they have no experience so stone sandwich throwing ensues

[guy b.]

Its up to him if he wants to explain more. As I belong to the same lineage it's easy for me to understand. A lot of Kev's posts are excellent but in other peoples eyes they are not taken as such. That's because they don't understand what he is saying because they have no experience so stone sandwich throwing ensues

I have also liked many of Kev's descriptions

[Graham H]

I was interested in Kevin's because he was impressed by the insight PB offered to him at the seminar. Why wouldn't I want to know about it?

KG has been impressed from the word go as have I and a whole line of ex lineage people.

Maybe Sean Obassi will be the next. He seemed pretty blown away by it all if his words on FB are anything to go by.

Hopefully the message will start spreading in Arizona soon eh Joy?

[Vajramusti]

KG has been impressed from the word go as have I and a whole line of ex lineage people.

Maybe Sean Obassi will be the next. He seemed pretty blown away by it all if his words on FB are anything to go by.

Hopefully the message will start spreading in Arizona soon eh Joy?

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Possibly in the Superstition Mountains where they still have not found lost gold <G>
There are different wing chun groups here. Also it's the land of the crazies and dreamers of fool's gold.

[Graham H]

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Possibly in the Superstition Mountains where they still have not found lost gold <G>
There are different wing chun groups here. Also it's the land of the crazies and dreamers of fool's gold.

ha ha ha! Spoken like a true Professor!

[Vajramusti]

-------------Joys ideas are shallow pivoting chi sao not fighting at lightning speeds.

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You may try reading accurately.

[guy b.]

Lol, what's the history of this hate?