Is Taiji a striking art?

[YouKnowWho]

Taiji has the following punching skills:

1. Vital punch (jab to the belly), Chang vital punch - YouTube
2. Deflect, grab, and punch (jab to the chest), Chang step out deflect grab and punch - YouTube
3. Bending bow and shoot tiger (cross), Chang bend bow shoot tiger - YouTube
4. Striking tiger (hook), Chang striking tiger - YouTube
5. Twin peak to the ears (double hooks), Chang twin peaks to ear - YouTube
6. Snake extends tone (uppercut), Chang snake extend tone - YouTube
7. Turn around hammer (back fist), Chang turn around hammer - YouTube
8. Fetching arm (hammer fist), Chang fetch arm - YouTube
9. Drop down hammer (downward punch), Chang drop down hammer - YouTube

Taiji contains all the boxing skill (jab, cross, hook, uppercut) and much more.

Taiji also has the following kicking skills:

1. Separate leg (toes kick), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Qn6NfU2_o
2. Turn around heel kick (heel kick), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wklPFVHVBQA
3. Rooster on one leg (knee strike), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwBSXaJw1HA
4. cross leg (reverse side kick), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sATLJ79SEkg
5. Lotus kick (outside crescent kick), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idEMJNi5AmY

I'll say that Taiji is more a striking style than a grappling style (no hip throw, no single leg, no double legs, ...). What do you think?

[PalmStriker]

Having sparred with a black belt status YangStyle practitioner a number of times in my early days I would say most definitely. You may have to initiate offensively for the most part but try not to get battered too badly doing so. (numbing your limbs targeting pressure points). I guess the fight's over since both of my arms are numb and only one leg to stand on, other one numb. "Hey let's go to the park and watch the grass grow". No thanks, I'd rather go to the park and watch the Yang Style Taiji people working out. Who was teaching YangStyle (Chinese Master) on the island of Oahu, Honolulu, Hawaii in the late 70's early 80's? Got to know 2 of his students in the States back then.

[PalmStriker]

Yeah, I think Taiji is more striking than Chin Na / grappling. Like Crane style, Taiji practitioners don't like being handled or having their feathers ruffled, (disadvantage) thus striking out to keep opponent at a distance. Rush in on them and they will dodge while targeting your vitals.

[PalmStriker]

Yeah, that be the kick you don't see coming as you rush in but feel as it thumps your chest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idEMJNi5AmY

[PalmStriker]

Like the #5 Twin Ear Thumb Screws, yow!(followed by a knee to the chin).

[xinyidizi]

Taiji can be different things depending on how much your teacher knows about it or how much he wants to teach. Using the moves in the form for defining what taiji should be is wrong as the form is just for building the connections. The combat part of taiji starts from push hands and a wide range of both grappling and striking is covered there. In case your teacher is openly teaching after learning tingjin in different types of basic push hands he should gradually add qinna, grappling and striking(punch, elbow, shoulder, knee, ...) in the PH. When I trained my teacher used to choose the techniques we wanted to work on in push hands. This is a training method and after some time it will become sanshou. What taiji tries to do is to develop tingjin, smooth body movements and it never limits the techniques you want to use as long as they are effective.

[SPJ]

I'll say that Taiji is more a striking style than a grappling style (no hip throw, no single leg, no double legs, ...). What do you think?

Tai Ji is a balance act.

or centering act.

We have to consider dissolution or neutralization of the opponent's jin first.

Thus

We have hua da, hua na and hua shuai.

Hua Jin first that is.

[xinyidizi]

Tai Ji is a balance act.

or centering act.

We have to consider dissolution or neutralization of the opponent's jin first.

Thus

We have hua da, hua na and hua shuai.

Hua Jin first that is.

In Chen village they say the one who strikes first is the elder brother and the one who strikes later is the little brother (or something like that if I remember correctly). Anyway at least the Chen teachers I have met recommend striking first.

[bawang]

In Chen village they say the one who strikes first is the elder brother and the one who strikes later is the little brother (or something like that if I remember correctly). Anyway at least the Chen teachers I have met recommend striking first.

then how u grabble the wrist and bridge if they don't lunge at you first

THINK AOBT IT

[RenDaHai]

In Chen village they say the one who strikes first is the elder brother and the one who strikes later is the little brother (or something like that if I remember correctly). Anyway at least the Chen teachers I have met recommend striking first.

That seems hard to believe, it would be against important principles, I think maybe you have that the wrong way round. I can see that in XinYi definately, but not in Taiji.

Certainly in China not many people who would advocate that principle have ever used it, China historically is a litigious place, and has strict laws for fighting. If you throw first you will certainly be in trouble and China is a competitive place, a previous conviction is not a stain you can escape from.

Taiji is famous for following the principle 'Jie li da ren' (borrow power to strike) more so than other styles, this is not easy when you are first. Secondly Taiji still ascribes to standard WuDe ideas where that would be unacceptable. There are other principles too which make this unlikely.

I think that maybe you have that saying the wrong way round and that it is the little brother who strikes first.

As to OP:

Taiji is long fist, has a lot of strikes.

[xinyidizi]

I'm pretty sure I have heard it from them a few times. Neutralizing and borrowing power is just one of the tools of Chen Taiji. The most important thing is to finish the opponent as fast as possible which should be the most important principle of any martial art. As for Wude if something happens you won't find much of it in rural China. Street fights are common around Chen village.

[RenDaHai]

I'm pretty sure I have heard it from them a few times. Neutralizing and borrowing power is just one of the tools of Chen Taiji. The most important thing is to finish the opponent as fast as possible which should be the most important principle of any martial art. As for Wude if something happens you won't find much of it in rural China. Street fights are common around Chen village.

Most important principle of a martial art is not to finish the opponent at all.

Wude is not just about morality. It is about safety. Wude is about keeping yourself safe. The law is a much stronger opponent than any man, safety is not just about the fight itself but also the consequences.

In old China, even within living memory, the father is punished along side the son for his crimes. Striking first is to escalate the fight, when you know your family will have to pay for any transgression you make, you will be sure you keep to the law closely if you are a citizen. Their are myriad consequences to every fight, I am certain no serious Taiji master would advocate striking first.

Never the less I don't want to derail the thread into an argument about Wude.

Taiji has a lot of strikes.

[-N-]

Taiji is famous for following the principle 'Jie li da ren' (borrow power to strike) more so than other styles, this is not easy when you are first.

What if the intent of the first attack is to draw a reaction from which you borrow the force?

Praying Mantis does that all the time. That is also the Shuai Jiao push-pull idea.

Or does Tai Chi not favor initiating that way?

[RenDaHai]

What if the intent of the first attack is to draw a reaction from which you borrow the force?

Praying Mantis does that all the time. That is also the Shuai Jiao push-pull idea.

Or does Tai Chi not favor initiating that way?

A fair point, its a common strategy, like to draw the bow and other classic techniques. Never the less you cannot guarantee they will take the bait so it is not the same strategy as reacting only. If they do not react to the first attack it must have the ability to change from empty to solid.

[YouKnowWho]

We have to consider dissolution or neutralization of the opponent's jin first.

It's very hard (if not impossible) to neutralize when your opponent

- punches at your face, or
- grabs you with both hands.

So when should neutralization be applied?

Taiji system depends on neutralization is just like the SC system depends on sleeve hold. Both dependency may work in sport but won't work in combat.