Is Taiji a striking art?

[Kellen Bassette]

I don't know Chen Taiji but a good friend of mine does. From his Chen Taiji form, I just cannot find that "foot sweep" in it. IMO, if it's not in the form, it may come from "cross training" (nothing wrong with that).

I don't think form is any kind of "end all" indicator for what exists in a art. Some things don't lend themselves to a particular systems "style" of form, as well as others.

For instance, there are no roundhouse kicks in the traditional forms of most Kung Fu, Okinawan or Japanese Karate. All these martial arts make heavy use of roundhouse kick though.

[Lucas]

thats cuz we're all kickboxing knuckleheads

[sanjuro_ronin]

Forms are NOT used to teach ALL the techniques of a system but simply to train, solo, certain attributes.

[YouKnowWho]

I don't think form is any kind of "end all" indicator for what exists in a art. Some things don't lend themselves to a particular systems "style" of form, as well as others.

For instance, there are no roundhouse kicks in the traditional forms of most Kung Fu, Okinawan or Japanese Karate. All these martial arts make heavy use of roundhouse kick though.

Forms are NOT used to teach ALL the techniques of a system but simply to train, solo, certain attributes.

If roundhouse kick is your favor, and if you want to create a form for the future generation, what will be the reason that you don't want to include your roundhouse kick into your form?

Hendrik also said that "foot sweep" exists in the WC system. If it's not in those 3 WC open hand forms, wooden dummy forms, pole form, and butterfly knife form, the style founder must hide it nicely. My question is to hide it for what reason?

[Kellen Bassette]

If roundhouse kick is your favor, and if you want to create a form for the future generation, what will be the reason that you don't want to include your roundhouse kick into your form? To me, I can't find a good reason for it. Hendrik also said that "foot sweep" is in the WC system. If it's not in those 3 WC open hand forms, wooden dummy forms, pole form, and butterfly knife form, the style founder must hide it nicely. My question is for what reason?

Honestly, this is just my opinion based on nothing really, but I think roundhouse messes up the flow of Chinese forms. Kung Fu forms, especially northern forms, tend to use one movement to naturally "pull" you into the next, making the form fluid. Roundhouse kick doesn't work well with this because you must pivot the supporting foot, than re-pivot back. It messes up the flow, hence, jacking up the mojo. And Karate came from Kung Fu, so they didn't have that kick in the kata handed down to them.

Watch modern TKD poomse, the roundhouse kicks break the rhythm, things look robotic. I think appearance was an important factor in the creation of forms and this would explain the absence of a very basic, fundamental technique.

But I could be completely wrong.

[MightyB]

Mantis has a round-housed flavored kick - it shows up periodically in the forms. Look at about 15 seconds in this guy's demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyYmG-QFM-4

[Lucas]

But I could be completely wrong.

You are completely wrong.

The truth can be found at the bottom of a bucket of extra crispy.

[YouKnowWho]

Mantis has a round-housed flavored kick - it shows up periodically in the forms. Look at about 15 seconds in this guy's demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyYmG-QFM-4

That's the PM "close door kick". The longfist system has it too. It's in Tantui #7.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unjqH...ature=youtu.be

[xinyidizi]

I don't know Chen Taiji but a good friend of mine does. From his Chen Taiji form, I just cannot find that "foot sweep" in it. IMO, if it's not in the form, it may come from "cross training" (nothing wrong with that).

It is in the form. In Chen style most of the moves have several applications and in practice different people do them with different intentions which is why you have to watch several forms or ask a legitimate teacher to explain all the applications as some people prefer to do the sweeps and some don't. However in case of moves like wind sweeps the plum blossom which I posted earlier(1:24), 黄龙三搅水（2:45），扫堂腿（3:10）in this video: http://v.ku6.com/show/1TAuZ2DymLK-RRpSLiBgYQ...html foot sweep is clearly the main application of the moves though in some applications some people might prefer to use it without the sweep.

[Eric Olson]

Tai Ji has peng, lu, ji, an (ward off, roll back, press, push down)--this is the "pushing" part that everyone is familiar with. But also zhou, lie, cai and kao (elbow, split, pull down and shoulder strike) that are short and fast--and hurt--a lot. Of course, I'm over simplifying because these aren't specific techniques but also "energies".

http://taichivideos.org/chen-xiaowan...tai-chi-chuan/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4w_62WX9Rk

[Kellen Bassette]

I suppose that's a roundhouse variant, though not the kick we usually think of...it's moot point anyway since Lucas decided I'm completely wrong, I shall return to my heavy bag alone and shamed. I will practice 1000 kicks, but not a single round kick. My Gong Fu is pure as driven snow....

[YouKnowWho]

I suppose that's a roundhouse variant, ...

That was why when I saw the TKD RK, I replaced my LF RK by the TKD RK. Later on when I saw the MT RK, I again replaced my TKD RK by the MT RK. There is always a better way to do the same technique. When I did that, the word "style" no longer had any meaning to me.

Do I still do the long fist round house kick today? Of course not! The evolution is one way street. It should never go back.

[Kellen Bassette]

That was why when I saw the TKD RK, I had replaced my LF RK by the TKD RK.

Was the kick in the video the same as what you refer to as LF RK?

[YouKnowWho]

Was the kick in the video the same as what you refer to as LF RK?

To be honest, I believe it was between TKD roundhouse kick and MT round house kick. I don't like the TKD round house kick that kick with the ball of the foot. I like to kick with my instep (back then, you won't get a score in Karate tournament. They soon changed that). The MT roundhouse kick is a pure "body pull the leg". As you have stated, it messes up the flow of Chinese forms and I agree with you 100% on that.

I still remembered that when I changed my TKD roundhouse kick to the MT roundhouse kick, I discussed it with a local TKD instructor (he became the local communist party leader). His respond was, "Who care about power?" He became a TKD performer soon after that.

[Jimbo]

I don't like the TKD round house kick that kick with the ball of the foot. I like to kick with my instep

Me too. I never was able to use ball of foot roundhouse kick. Well, I used it once effectively for real with shoes on. In that case, it was actually the toe of the shoe that made contact. And it wasn't a high kick but around his solar plexus. It worked effectively because he was in too close for an instep kick, and it had more penetration.