Is Taiji a striking art?

[bawang]

What do you mean by real PH?

PH is a training method for learning tingjin and teaching both grappling and striking as well as neutralizing basics in a controlled environment. After that it's about sanshou.

push hands is an exercise where two people push each other.

[MightyB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNAV_AurtKI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zeqVJKg55g

some of the problems with modern taiji

I agree with Master Ken. In America - Tai Chi is only for sissies and old people. If you're 10 and practicing tai chi, you're a sissy - if you're 70 and practicing tai chi, you're obviously old... and a sissy.

[lkfmdc]

30-something years ago a student of Guang Yi Ren showed me a video of push hands competitions in Chen village. I said "cool" now THAT makes sense and looks like the real stuff... at the time, silly me, I thought it was just a matter of time until Americans saw this and realized martial arts are actually about martial arts

30 years later, I still see Americans saying "those Chen village people don't know taiji"

[xinyidizi]

push hands is an exercise where two people push each other.

Basic PH is for tingjin and is like a blueprint. Other things like controlled striking and Qinna can also be practiced on that foundation. For example while we were doing PH my teacher would punch or Qinna me without using much power. Now if I could neutralize it I would continue the PH or if I couldn't he wouldn't continue his attack and would continue the PH.

[bawang]

Basic PH is for tingjin and is like a blueprint. Other things like controlled striking and Qinna can also be practiced on that foundation.

blue print for success in internal arts is lifting weights in secret

[xinyidizi]

blue print for success in internal arts is lifting weights in secret

Lifting weight is dull. I prefer playing with heavy weapons.

[pazman]

Lifting weight is dull. I prefer playing with heavy weapons.

A very old and semi retired strength trainer for our sanda program used to be the head of the traditional martial arts program at sports university in Wuhan. He was a taijiquan / hongquan master but became disgusted when younger coaches wouldn't follow a proper weightlifting routine.

Every time I do deadlift, I think of him.

The profound is often realized in the simple and dull.

[bawang]

Lifting weight is dull.

then you don't deserve to train martial arts.

[sanjuro_ronin]

IMO,
Taiji was a complete TCMA, Chen TAIJI, to original taiji style, trained(es) striking and kicking and clinch and throws AND weapons.
Yes, it doesn't address ground grappling but that is because of cultural reasons.
The forms in taiji were a way to "teach" the body to relax and flow and to catlogue the basic moves ( Typical of TCMA) but the fighting was learned through FIGHTING.
Learning how to read and react to an opponent was learned through fighting AND push hands and I mean push hands who's goal was to PUSH and to react/act to real pushing with INTENT.

When you remove real intent, you get nothing.

[YouKnowWho]

ALL CMA is supposed to be "ti da shuai na"

I agree that all CMA is supposed to be "ti da shuai na" in theory. It may not be true in reality. If you go to a Judo tournament and try to use those throwing techniques that you have learned from your system, you will have little to no chance to defeat those Judo guys. Why? Because Those Judo guys treat their throwing skill as their bread and butter, but your style may just treat the throwing skill as "part of the system".

If a

- boxer wrestles 15 rounds daily, he will become a wrestler.
- BJJ guy boxs 15 round daily, he will become a boxer.

It's more important to train than trying to dig out those hidden information from any particular system.

[lkfmdc]

I agree that all CMA is supposed to be "ti da shuai na" in theory. It may not be true in reality. If you go to a Judo tournament and try to use those throwing techniques that you have learned from your system, you will have little to no chance to defeat those Judo guys. Why?

I can defeat a judo guy with striking, but if I do it at a Judo tournament I will definitely be thrown out of building, maybe sued, perhaps even be put in jail

Same with wrestling and Muay Thai, you get DQ'ed in the SPORT.....

IN Sanshou/San Da you can't slap on the arm bar after the throw or stomp on their head

But we aren't talking about competition format, we are talking about martial arts SYSTEMS

[David Jamieson]

These days? Is Taiji even used as a martial art for real at all?
For the greatest part of the practitioners, it is a health art first and martial art in origin.

taiji fighters? where?

I knew one guy long ago that was serious about using Taiji for combat and even did some training at the RCMP division by my place.

But that's it.

for the most part, it's good pratice to stay limber and keep teh joints lubed an the body quality up.

As a fighting art, I don't think it would be unfair to qualify that aspect of it as dead.
It is not used as such with any efficacy.

FWIW.
Push hands, even rough push hands is not an accurate reflection fo fighting in my opinion.

[Neeros]

I'm not a Taiji practitioner but in my school Push hands is followed by Striking hands to be able to use the patterns and footwork/stances spontaneously in combat.

[David Jamieson]

I'm not a Taiji practitioner but in my school Push hands is followed by Striking hands to be able to use the patterns and footwork/stances spontaneously in combat.

That sounds like typical flow drills from sticky hand drills.

[bawang]

hay guys

how I defend muay thai pls help