WSL Ving Tsun - Sifu Cliff Au Yeung - Blindfold Gor Sau Training

[Ozzy Dave]

No he doesn't. His line of attack is based on mistakes and openings presented by the other guy.

Mistakes id assume he has helped create...... yes? no?

Good question Graham, what do you say?

[GlennR]

Good question Graham, what do you say?

Thanks Dave..... looking forward to G's answer

[Graham H]

Mistakes id assume he has helped create...... yes? no?

In some instances

Did i say that?

No I did

Because he works a line after having dealt with the obstacle (bridge), or did it just magically disappear?

So a punch, kick, a head butt, a grab, a weapon are all bridges are they?? If so then yes a bridge.

Oh come on G, he paks to clear the line all the time in his clips.

Yes he does but it's not based on BPWT's or wingchunian's etc idea on contacting the bridge, sensing energy etc etc

Calm down G.... youre getting too old to get excited!

Not excited just frustrated at you clowns that have no idea about what your on about is all pet!

BTW Glenn you will be interested to know that I have been back boxing recently. Apart from PB and PB guys nobody can really fight Wing Chun so I had no choice. The sparring has been an eye opener as I originally thought I could use Ving Tsun. No way albeit footwork and attacking lines. Without the gloves I can use my Ving Tsun and in fact have more success than with gloves against a person that is throwing hooks. uppercuts etc. If the gloves are on I have to box.

I can't be bothered to go into the details why but it is safe to say that the arm contact wing chun brigade would not stand much chance if any at all.

[GlennR]

Yes yes I agree I am only saying that the model is not how we will often end up doing things that we will often modify that model way to suit our individuality and that is why you cannot use some objective standard or model to compare with how someone is doing it and say it is good or bad. For that you need to look at how it is working for them. It is through the practice that you learn how to modify things for yourself. Of course there are guidelines but they are only that.

No they aren't JUST guidelines.... ultimately these guidelines describe the optimum techniques which is ultimately where you want to be.

But, ill give you one thing..... these guidelines/principles/theories were "discovered" after generations of trial and error

The folks previous have done the work for us

[Graham H]

Mistakes id assume he has helped create...... yes? no?

You mean this question???

[GlennR]

In some instances

Who would have thought eh

No I did

Thought so

So a punch, kick, a head butt, a grab, a weapon are all bridges are they?? If so then yes a bridge.

Ofcourse they are.... call it a point of reference if you dont like the word bridge.
ALL strikers use it.... MT, boxing, silat etc

Yes he does but it's not based on BPWT's or wingchunian's etc idea on contacting the bridge, sensing energy etc etc

Did i say that?

Not excited just frustrated at you clowns that have no idea about what your on about is all pet!

On the contrary G.... i think i do

Fightings fighting after all

BTW Glenn you will be interested to know that I have been back boxing recently.

Good move

Apart from PB and PB guys nobody can really fight Wing Chun so I had no choice.

Thats part of the reason ive wandered away form WC..... for now at least

The sparring has been an eye opener as I originally thought I could use Ving Tsun. No way albeit footwork and attacking lines.

Yep, its a different animal isnt it

Without the gloves I can use my Ving Tsun and in fact have more success than with gloves against a person that is throwing hooks. uppercuts etc. If the gloves are on I have to box.

Its an eye opener isnt it, the WC principles etc really fall away once you get the gloves on.
You enjoying it?

I can't be bothered to go into the details why but it is safe to say that the arm contact wing chun brigade would not stand much chance if any at all.

Yes and no.
At boxing range they wont/dont know what to do, bit like a rabbit in the headlights, but at clinch range it has its uses

Its funny, this whole "ballistic" thing in regards to PB has me looking at the two styles ive done (WC that is) a bit differently.

Been a very good thread to be honest

[GlennR]

You mean this question???

Yep, thats the one

[BPWT]

No he doesn't.

His line of attack is based on mistakes and openings presented by the other guy. This is what chi sau teaches, not arm sticking.

As Glenn pointed out - often PB has forced these mistakes and openings. Partly from positioning, partly from clearing the line. Any form of contact is a bridge.

Regarding arm sticking, like I said... you are the only one who keeps labeling others as arm sticking, even when it is explained to you what this actually is, and what it isn't (arm chasing).

He doesn't try to deflect things out of the way.

For Pete's Sake! His clips are full of lap, bong and pak. All of which deflect things. Do you really not see him using pak, bong and lap?

To deflect something you have to make contact with it... to make contact with something is to create a bridge. PB does this time and time again. Bridge and deflect, bridge and reposition, etc.

There is a whole strategy for this. It's GOT NOTHING TO WITH EFFING BRIDGES!

In WSLPBVT, do you learn the second form? I know you do, as you once said that SNT alone was useless for fighting - that you need CK.

Do you call the second form Chum Kiu? If you do, what do think the name of this form means. How does PB translate it? Or have you guys renamed it?

[Ozzy Dave]

You mean this question???

Yep, I and I'm sure Glenn appreciate PB is good, without benefit of contact (it's on my bucket list) your opinion is sought.

I'd say there is quite a bit of control going on - not a bad thing just appears the centre is being manipulated effectively.

Again your opinion is sought...

Dave

[Graham H]

As Glenn pointed out - often PB has forced these mistakes and openings. Partly from positioning, partly from clearing the line. Any form of contact is a bridge.

Regarding arm sticking, like I said... you are the only one who keeps labeling others as arm sticking, even when it is explained to you what this actually is, and what it isn't (arm chasing).



For Pete's Sake! His clips are full of lap, bong and pak. All of which deflect things. Do you really not see him using pak, bong and lap?

To deflect something you have to make contact with it... to make contact with something is to create a bridge. PB does this time and time again. Bridge and deflect, bridge and reposition, etc.



In WSLPBVT, do you learn the second form? I know you do, as you once said that SNT alone was useless for fighting - that you need CK.

Do you call the second form Chum Kiu? If you do, what do think the name of this form means. How does PB translate it? Or have you guys renamed it?

Blah blah blah blah

[Graham H]

Yep, thats the one

Of course with the idea that if we move to a position whereby the next attack means the opponent crosses himself we can capitalize on that mistake. Other mistakes include a poor wu sau, low hands, no LSJC, overshooting, poor timing, no real force.

.......but nothing to do with expoitling any weaknesses discovered from any prolonged arm contact.

[Graham H]

Thats part of the reason ive wandered away form WC..... for now at least

I don't blame you. My focus has been adjusted due to lack of any good VT sparring partners. Normal WC need not apply.

Yep, its a different animal isnt it

Yes very. At first the biggest hurdle is distance and confidence

Its an eye opener isnt it, the WC principles etc really fall away once you get the gloves on.

Many of the hand ones do, yes.

You enjoying it?

TBH the focus has been more on conditioning than sparring in the first instance. Skipping, bag work, weights, ton ups, pad work etc

I can spar for a lot longer doing VT. Different muscles and obstacles that hit the cardio system.

Its funny, this whole "ballistic" thing in regards to PB has me looking at the two styles ive done (WC that is) a bit differently.

Been a very good thread to be honest

[BPWT]

......but nothing to do with expoitling any weaknesses discovered from any prolonged arm contact.

Why do you assume it is prolonged arm contact? Contact is made, the next option happens. This is what PB is doing. Anyone watching these clips, and who hasn't been hoodwinked by rhetoric, can see this.

[BPWT]

Blah blah blah blah

Nice argument. So presumably you don't know what the words 'Chum Kiu' mean.

Clueless

[Graham H]

Why do you assume it is prolonged arm contact? Contact is made, the next option happens. This is what PB is doing. Anyone watching these clips, and who hasn't been hoodwinked by rhetoric, can see this.

So what if contact isn't made?????