The Thinking Man's Art

[Kevin73]

You didn’t have your basic farmers learning Wing Chun, you had people with more substance (learning it at that time). We should conduct the art in that matter, because it’s progressing in that matter. I think there is a great improvement of Wing Chun, because it passes onto intelligent people. Not just thugs, gangsters, or stupid people.

I think I would prefer that the art I am learning to be one that was used by a bunch of thugs and gangsters who had to really use it to survive and not by a bunch of intellectuals who only "think" about fighting and "think" that they know what would work in a violent situation.

A phrase that I have heard applied to arts that "think" too much is "paralysis by analysis". They put too much stock on the theory of their art and not enough hands on give and go with their art.

[Wayfaring]

Robert Chu: WC was developed by "people of substance", doctors, show people and merchants, viz. the bourgeouisie rather than the proletariat.

If he means like rich people who could afford private lessons from Yip Man and the other known teachers of the day, he may have a point.

Do you think Yip was above taking their money, showing them a few things, and allowing them to believe they were bad@sses? I don't. In fact that would explain a whole lot of his teaching different things to different people.

I'm sure nothing like that goes on today.

[Wayfaring]

I think I would prefer that the art I am learning to be one that was used by a bunch of thugs and gangsters who had to really use it to survive and not by a bunch of intellectuals who only "think" about fighting and "think" that they know what would work in a violent situation.

That would probably be boxing. The sweet science of the proletariat.

[KPM]

My objection was the wording that doctors, actors, etc., make better MAists because their social status means they are more intelligent than 'simple farmers'. .

That was NOT the message or intent of this thread. Why do people here feel the need to "nit-pick" things to death? Are you just looking for a fight?????

[KPM]

Thanks for your concern. However, I think you have significant issues of your own in that regard you should probably sort out before worrying about l'il ol' me.

You brought that up first Andrew. Don't throw stones if you aren't ready to catch the bounce back. Evidently I'm not the only one with issues.

Isn't it amazing that a simple friendly conversation is nearly an impossibility in this forum?

[KPM]

OK. I realize that Robert could have stated things in a little more politically correct way. But the central message was that a little bit of intelligence and understanding of the concepts behind Wing Chun are important. I reinforced this idea with the quotes from Wong Shun Leung. So why does everyone seem to want to nit-pick what Robert Chu said rather than talking about developing Wing Chun? Why does nearly everything here have to turn into an argument rather than a simple conversation?

[YouKnowWho]

If you worked from daylight to dark every day it might effect the time you might have to study or practice.

In order to study CMA, you have to have:

- money,
- free time.

Since poor kids won't have money and free time, only rich kids can afford to train CMA. Since rich kids will become CMA guys and poor kids will become scholars, the poor kids will become more intelligent than the rich kids in the long run. It ends up those who doesn't train CMA are smarter than those who does.

This will apply to all TCMA styles and not just WC.

[Jimbo]

That was NOT the message or intent of this thread. Why do people here feel the need to "nit-pick" things to death? Are you just looking for a fight?????

It's one of the things that were implied. But since you can't see that...

Have a nice day.

[PalmStriker]

If he means like rich people who could afford private lessons from Yip Man and the other known teachers of the day, he may have a point.

Do you think Yip was above taking their money, showing them a few things, and allowing them to believe they were bad@sses? I don't. In fact that would explain a whole lot of his teaching different things to different people.

I'm sure nothing like that goes on today.

Yip Man himself was a product of private lessons for the "well to do".

[anerlich]

OK. I realize that Robert could have stated things in a little more politically correct way.

It's to do with correctness, not political correctness.

Rich or artistic != intelligent. That's the main objection distilled, I think.

That was NOT the message or intent of this thread.

It WAS the message of the quote with which you started the thread. IMO. You seem to disagree.

But the central message was that a little bit of intelligence and understanding of the concepts behind Wing Chun are important.

Can't I agree with that and still disagree with what he said about social class?

Don't throw stones if you aren't ready to catch the bounce back.

I'm ready.

[GlennR]

I actually skimmed over this thread initially but, having read it gain, i think this sums up whats wrong with WC in general.

That is, this semi-elitist attitude of it being a "clever" art that only suits educated intelligent people.

Personally, i think its an awful statement

[Wayfaring]

I don't know, I think some of the stuff coming up shows the propensity for BS in WCK. Is that the art itself or is it just the baggage and culture that you have to wade through to get to the valuable things in the art?

IMO WCK as an art is pure, direct, simple, effective.

Unfortunately the vast majority of its practitioners are none of these.

[anerlich]

That is, this semi-elitist attitude of it being a "clever" art that only suits educated intelligent people.

Personally, i think its an awful statement

Agreed.

I'm always looking for weaknesses and holes in whatever I've learned. Not reasons to congratulate myself on choosing so cleverly.

And never assume I'm smarter or better than any other MAist just because of whatever choices of what to study I made, most of which truth be told were by fortuitious accident or coincidence.

You think you're smart or need to tell yourself you are, something is wrong with you.

[KPM]

I'm resurrecting this old contentious thread, well, because at least Danny agrees with me!


http://www.wingchunbrotherhood.com/b...king-mans-art/

[Faux Newbie]

Thinking is useful in designing one's training. That would be how techniques that support each other （and thus bring out principles) become habit.

Once fighting, thinking is a liability most of the time. If your training doesn't prepare, then hope for luck and take advantage of it.

This is true of every real style.