Sanda/Sanshou

[fa_jing]

My teacher and I were watching a video advertising 1 months sanshou training in China, showed them training with boxing gloves, free-sparring, shuai chiao demonstrations, etc. His response, being that he's not been keeping up with the latest developments in Chinese Martial sport over the last 5 or so years, was something like wow, I thought that was Thai Boxing or Kickboxing or something. I'm like, no, that's Chinese San Shou and it's great, take a look. Now my teacher respects TCMA greatly, but he is a JKD man through and through, so this fit right into his philosophy of how to teach MA. He told me, "you know what happened, they're tired of getting whupped." I imagine that's a fair statement...we all know the failings of the wu-shu-ified CMA. The Ezine article with Master Ma says as much. So Sanshou is saving CMA from a sport perspective, and with traditional and sportive martial arts co-existing, I think it has to help the preservation of the real fighting element of Kung Fu, and the effects will continue to be felt in TCMA. In other words I don't thing TCMA will stray too far away from realistic because of it's association to Sanshou.

[Nexus]

Sanshou is great and anyone who sticks around in a school teaching T'ai Chi with martial application should eventually experience it. This being a generalization, "should."

[MightyB]

Now the next step is for you to compete in one.

[fa_jing]

Well, the sparring at the last tournament I participated in was basically San Shou rules, although the rounds were shortened and no points were given. Also, no one had actually trained in San Shou. I got TKO'd in my second bout. I spoke to a man there (the guy with the video) who said he was opening up a San Shou school in NW Indiana. I still need to improve before I get back in there.

[MightyB]

I still need to improve before I get back in there.

Me too

[Mutant]

Well said fa-jing, i agree with your perspective.

So whats the deal with the 1 months san shou training in china? Is it at the Shaolin temple complex? Who is organizing it and how much does it cost? Sounds intense, not that i could actually $wing that right now, but just curious.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Michael Barry and Gary Utterback are proud to host a seminar:

Shawn Liu, 31st generation disciple of the Shaolin Temple and coach of the US national San shou team will be teaching a seminar at Sifu Barry's school in Waldorf Maryland on Sat Oct 12th

3 seminars, Each Seminar will last from 1.5 to 2 hours long. These seminars are offered to anyone that wants to attend.

The first seminar will be on Chan (Zen) meditation.
The second on San Shou
The Third Shaolin Long Staff.

Cost will be $40.00 per seminar. $35.00 per seminar if you take 2 seminars. or $100.00 for all three seminars. These are for advance registration only paid by October 1st NO REFUNDS. If you pay at the door the cost will be $40.00 per seminar without discounts.

For additional information contact

Sifu Gary Utterback
410-257-2365
utterbacksifu@aol.com

[fa_jing]

I don't know the exact deal, or the name of the guy! I'd be interested, but have neither the time nor the money. There was an informational video about it - seems that you would be taught basics, warmups, techniques, training, and sparring - the whole sh'bang. There was shuai Chiao demonstrated on the tape from Sifu Weng, I think.

[OneStrike]

yah san shou is a real way forward for CMA. it has that sense of aliveness and means now some CMA people can actually fight not just have good traditional understanding of CMA (j/k i know some TCMA guys can fight its just takes a lot longer).

i think JKD is interesting with a conept called aliveness in training. this is what san shou has which sets it above other arts in terms of practicality. now if you combine it with the tradition and internal cultivation of TCMA you have the excellent combo.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by fa_jing
I spoke to a man there (the guy with the video) who said he was opening up a San Shou school in NW Indiana.

Now THIS you absolutely MUST get me some info on.

[fa_jing]

It sounds like he's still opening it up. I'll see what I can find out. He was mostly pushing the China trip, but he sounded serious about the school. He had a "police Judo" shirt on. Sev's sigong Sifu Andrew Lee ran the tournament and probably would know something.

Two serious fighters in the tournament were wearing T-shirts that said Chicago Guo Shu. Do you know anything about that?

[Ralek]

Quotes:

"I thought that was thai boxing or kickboxing or something"

"You know what happened they got tired of getting whooped"

End Quotes.

Yes. The chinese people got tired of the fact that kung fu doesn't work. He thought it was thai boxing becuase it is thai boxing. The chinese have accepted the fact that kung fu does not work and have started a sport called san shou that combines Muay thai, western wrestling, and TKD.

And it's not traditinanl kung fu. In fact all the traditional kung fu guys who fight in san shou get KO'd by the muay thai and wrestling techniques. Emin Boztepe sent of team to fight in san shou and they all got KO'd. The same thing happened to William Cheung's students.

I actually admire the chinese people's humility. They lost to all styles for decades. The Chinese accepted this fact and are now evolving. It's kind of like the early UFC's. The strikers were getting raped all the time. They accepted the fact and learned BJJ and wrestling and now they have evolved. Just like the chinese who had ineffective styles accepted the fact and learned Muay thai and wrestling.

I have fought a san shou fighter in a bloody challenge match with no protective gear in a fight and police were called and everything. I fought Shaolin Tiger. Just in case you all wanted to know. Hi Shaolin Tiger!!! Remember when I did the super kick(TM)?

[Ralek]

The adoption of wrestling and Muay thai is a direct admission by the chinese that kung fu is outdated.

You got the modern styles like Muay thai and wrestling. Acutally wrestliung and muay thai are really old but they actually work. I think the problem with kung fu is that you are not allowed to "evolve" it. People think kung fu is a high level so it is sacreligious for them to modify a kung fu thing. So the kung fu just stagnates and never evlovles. Kung fu is not 1000's of years old. Kung fu is only 1 year old becuase the moves havn't evloved. They just invneted a move and then it style never got older becuase it was only developed for 1 year then stagnated for 1000 years. So the chinese are not really evloving kung fu, but throwing out kung fu and adopting other styles completely.

Muay thai, Wrestling, BJJ are always evolving because of the hard sparring. No kata's or forms.

[Siuhoimoon]

Hi everybody,

does anybody have the latest international sanshou rules??

I´d like to take a look at the rules... could you send me via email (.pdf, .doc)?

thanks in advance for the help!!!

[SanShou Guru]

One of my students just fought at the San Shou World cup (got a silver) and the only changes over the old rules were that continuous head shots are allowed and there are no longer shin guards.

Ross may have more info.