Cirsus of Shaolin or not ?

[Rover]

As i know temples of Shaolin burned to ground long ago.
So, who are the people training at there?
What they are actually practice? I think it cant be shaolin style, it must be mix of folk styles such as ??? Gars.
It is a cirsus, a tourist trap or not? I would like to know.
Thanks &Regards

[wiz cool c]

As i know temples of Shaolin burned to ground long ago.
So, who are the people training at there?
What they are actually practice? I think it cant be shaolin style, it must be mix of folk styles such as ??? Gars.
It is a cirsus, a tourist trap or not? I would like to know.
Thanks &Regards

i would like to hear an educated answer to this question as well. I have noticed a problem with the applications of shaolin kung fu. there seems to be something missing from them, and the teachers that teach them are also unclear about them. or reinvented them in recent time,without having a clear fighting knowledge.

[Royal Dragon]

i would like to hear an educated answer to this question as well. I have noticed a problem with the applications of shaolin kung fu. there seems to be something missing from them, and the teachers that teach them are also unclear about them. or reinvented them in recent time,without having a clear fighting knowledge.

The proper applications to most of the Shaolin stuff was well preserved outside of China. Look to Malaysian and Indonesian Kung Fu. It's all pickled into the Silat styles too.

Everything I ever learned in Kung Fu made rational sense when I started playing with Kuntao/Silat de Thouars.

All the missing pieces are there.

[Kellen Bassette]

The proper applications to most of the Shaolin stuff was well preserved outside of China. Look to Malaysian and Indonesian Kung Fu.

I don't know about Malaysian systems, but isn't most Indonesian Kung Fu of Cantonese origin? I don't think it would follow the same lines as Songshan.

[Royal Dragon]

I don't know about Malaysian systems, but isn't most Indonesian Kung Fu of Cantonese origin? I don't think it would follow the same lines as Songshan.

A lot of the stuff I do has a Shantung origin. Basically it's the same, old school, pre Moslem Long Fist military arts that were preserved at Shaolin in the Song dynasty.

The forms are unique, but the body of techniques and usage are the same. At least that is what I got from comparing Sal Canzonieri's Shaolin, with the Kuntao/Silat I was exploring.

My branch contains that, Taiji, Hsing I and Bagua too. Again, the forms are kind of unique, but the body of techniques and usage is the same.

We also have a bunch of Hakka stuff in our line as well.

[GeneChing]

Thread: 2018 Year of the EARTH DOG
Thread: Cirsus of Shaolin or not ?
Thread: Wudang Kung Fu?

[ShaolinDan]

I think what Bawang is trying to say is that this topic has already been addressed countless times on this forum, as well as being addressed in numerous magazine articles and even some books. If it wasn't the weekend, Gene would now come in here and plug his book, Shaolin Trips: http://www.martialartsmart.com/btc-gc01.html
Anyway, there's a lot of info on this forum about what you're asking already, and a lot of opinions--try the search function and happy reading.

[ShaolinDan]

Ok, Look, the short answer is after the temple was burned the kung fu remained in the villages near the temple. When Shaolin Temple started to get big again the forms were collected and combined into standardized forms for the temple. Whether or not the applications are missing something probably depends on who's teaching them. Others on here could give you a lot more detail on this--found this out first hand just a couple weeks ago. But again, all this and more is already in numerous threads on this forum. Here's the most recent: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=66021 there are many more.

As far as Bawang goes, well, I'm not a mod and it's not my responsibility, but there's always going to be trolls on here. At least Bawang: A) Obviously loves kung fu B) Has some serious contributions to make C) Is sometimes very funny. D) Trolls trolls. Nature abhors a vacuum. I say if you get a quality troll, keep it.

[bawang]

As far as Bawang goes, well, I'm not a mod and it's not my responsibility, but there's always going to be trolls on here. At least Bawang: A) Obviously loves kung fu B) Has some serious contributions to make C) Is sometimes very funny. D) Trolls trolls. Nature abhors a vacuum. I say if you get a quality troll, keep it.

I am not a troll. I am totally legitimah. but I can sense when someone is not truly seeking an answer to their question.

they can easily google that information, or purchase shaolin trips.

[ShaolinDan]

I am not a troll. I am totally legitimah. but I can sense when someone is not truly seeking an answer to their question.

I'd say sometimes you are and sometimes you aren't. But I'm, glad you're here.

Anyway, I'd love to stick around and watch this turn into a flame war, but I'm going to go walk the city walls of Pingyao instead. Have fun.

[bawang]

I'd say sometimes you are and sometimes you aren't. But I'm, glad you're here.

Anyway, I'd love to stick around and watch this turn into a flame war, but I'm going to go walk the city walls of Pingyao instead. Have fun.

I don't want to argue with them. its not worth it. I respect every dedicated hard training martial artist. I just want to bring to attention shaolin trips, a wonderful book full of information on shaolin.

[LFJ]

What technique is this close range kick your all talking about?

It's the xiebu chuaitui from the 18 jibengong video by Shi Decheng.

The application Shi Decheng shows changes the action of the arms completely, making them spread open like a high palm block and low goushou to block a punch and catch a kick, and then sidekick from that close a range directly in front of the opponent. Looking like this;



The problem is that's a completely different action. The arms aren't doing that at all. The elbows are kept in tight as in baoshou suoshen with one fist guarding high and one striking low. They never spread open in the actual move.

'Bottom of the sea' is HaiDi, this is another name for the point HuiYin which is at the perineum. So often a technique called 'HaiDi' implies attacking the bladder or groin (bladder is the 'sea' of the body). Needle means to use the fingers or the points of the toes.

Yes. A more practical application of the above action is to shantou or 'slip' to the outside of a punch and strike low into the bladder while turning the step into xiebu to then set up the kick from the outside, which of course needs not be so high. It can be to the knee, hip, or ribs.

The problem with the application he showed (besides it being a completely different action) is that no one is going to throw a rear leg round kick while leaving their lead hand punch out for you to catch them both. It's a classic setup of teacher telling student what to do so they can apply some fantasy app. Not gonna work.

[YouKnowWho]

Again, this has nothing to do with the teacher's ability to explain the form application. If the form creator did not create a meaningful form, there isn't much that any teacher can do.

At 0.37 of the following form, he moved his right hand to his right and then suddenly throw his right palm to his left. Even today, I still cannot find a meaningful application for that. Some people may say it's a training for the eyes. Others may say it's a dart throwing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f48lAjfJLek (at 0.37)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN6CV...ature=youtu.be

What do you think it should be?

[RenDaHai]

Again, this has nothing to do with the teacher's ability to explain the form application. If the form creator did not create a meaningful form, there isn't much that any teacher can do.

At 0.37 of the following form, he moved his right hand to his right and then suddenly throw his right palm to his left. Even today, I still cannot find a meaningful application for that. Some people may say it's a training for the eyes. Others may say it's a dart throwing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f48lAjfJLek (at 0.37)

What do you think it should be?

I can't see the video... Is there a name of the form? If it Shaolin I will know it.

Because Song Shan forms have passed so many generations of good masters, It is unusual to find a bad technique (in the old forms), more common the problem is with my ability to understand.

[YouKnowWho]

I can't see the video... Is there a name of the form? If it Shaolin I will know it.

Because Song Shan forms have passed so many generations of good masters, It is unusual to find a bad technique (in the old forms), more common the problem is with my ability to understand.

The name of this form is "Shao Fu Yeh (little tiger swallow)". It's a very common "fancy ending move" for many longfist system forms.

- You throw your right hand to your right with your elbow straight, arm parallel to the ground. Your eyes follow it to your right.
- You then throw your right palm to your left and on top of your head (like an overhead block). Your then turn your eyes to your left.

It's like an overhead block but since it's not a raising upper arm. It's quite confusing.