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Thread: Cirsus of Shaolin or not ?

  1. #1

    Cirsus of Shaolin or not ?

    As i know temples of Shaolin burned to ground long ago.
    So, who are the people training at there?
    What they are actually practice? I think it cant be shaolin style, it must be mix of folk styles such as ??? Gars.
    It is a cirsus, a tourist trap or not? I would like to know.
    Thanks &Regards

  2. #2
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    I think what Bawang is trying to say is that this topic has already been addressed countless times on this forum, as well as being addressed in numerous magazine articles and even some books. If it wasn't the weekend, Gene would now come in here and plug his book, Shaolin Trips: http://www.martialartsmart.com/btc-gc01.html
    Anyway, there's a lot of info on this forum about what you're asking already, and a lot of opinions--try the search function and happy reading.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    As i know temples of Shaolin burned to ground long ago.
    So, who are the people training at there?
    What they are actually practice? I think it cant be shaolin style, it must be mix of folk styles such as ??? Gars.
    It is a cirsus, a tourist trap or not? I would like to know.
    Thanks &Regards
    i would like to hear an educated answer to this question as well. I have noticed a problem with the applications of shaolin kung fu. there seems to be something missing from them, and the teachers that teach them are also unclear about them. or reinvented them in recent time,without having a clear fighting knowledge.

  4. #4
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    Ok, Look, the short answer is after the temple was burned the kung fu remained in the villages near the temple. When Shaolin Temple started to get big again the forms were collected and combined into standardized forms for the temple. Whether or not the applications are missing something probably depends on who's teaching them. Others on here could give you a lot more detail on this--found this out first hand just a couple weeks ago. But again, all this and more is already in numerous threads on this forum. Here's the most recent: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=66021 there are many more.

    As far as Bawang goes, well, I'm not a mod and it's not my responsibility, but there's always going to be trolls on here. At least Bawang: A) Obviously loves kung fu B) Has some serious contributions to make C) Is sometimes very funny. D) Trolls trolls. Nature abhors a vacuum. I say if you get a quality troll, keep it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaolinDan View Post

    As far as Bawang goes, well, I'm not a mod and it's not my responsibility, but there's always going to be trolls on here. At least Bawang: A) Obviously loves kung fu B) Has some serious contributions to make C) Is sometimes very funny. D) Trolls trolls. Nature abhors a vacuum. I say if you get a quality troll, keep it.
    I am not a troll. I am totally legitimah. but I can sense when someone is not truly seeking an answer to their question.

    they can easily google that information, or purchase shaolin trips.
    Last edited by bawang; 08-03-2013 at 07:34 PM.

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    I am not a troll. I am totally legitimah. but I can sense when someone is not truly seeking an answer to their question.
    I'd say sometimes you are and sometimes you aren't. But I'm, glad you're here.

    Anyway, I'd love to stick around and watch this turn into a flame war, but I'm going to go walk the city walls of Pingyao instead. Have fun.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaolinDan View Post
    I'd say sometimes you are and sometimes you aren't. But I'm, glad you're here.

    Anyway, I'd love to stick around and watch this turn into a flame war, but I'm going to go walk the city walls of Pingyao instead. Have fun.
    I don't want to argue with them. its not worth it. I respect every dedicated hard training martial artist. I just want to bring to attention shaolin trips, a wonderful book full of information on shaolin.

    Honorary African American
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
    Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC

  8. #8
    can we all ignore the nosense and get back to the topic, i am also curious about this topic.

  9. #9
    i would like to hear an educated answer to this question as well. I have noticed a problem with the applications of shaolin kung fu. there seems to be something missing from them, and the teachers that teach them are also unclear about them. or reinvented them in recent time,without having a clear fighting knowledge.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz cool c View Post
    i would like to hear an educated answer to this question as well. I have noticed a problem with the applications of shaolin kung fu. there seems to be something missing from them, and the teachers that teach them are also unclear about them. or reinvented them in recent time,without having a clear fighting knowledge.
    There is a problem. But it is not just in Shaolin, it is all over China.

    It is because the commercialisation of Wushu. There are now very big schools. They care about competition which is form performance or sanda. Traditional techniques do not fall into either category and so are not focussed on.

    In family styles the techniques remain fully. People from the big schools have never met the old masters, but in very small family schools there are several generations under one roof. However people in family styles do not have the beautiful looking basic skills of people trained in Wushu schools, so when people look they choose the teacher from the flashy wushu school, who has excellent basics and sanda, but probably no understanding of the techniques in his form.

    It is judging a book by its cover.

    If you go to meet an old master, or students of, you will find traditional Wushu. This goes for every style in China. It just happens that Dengfeng has schools with 20,000 students, so of course the effect is magnified. HOwever the Dengfeng countryside is also one of the richest in folk Wushu in China, so it is really not hard to find someone good if you speak a little Chinese.

    When you learn A Shaolin technique, it has a poetic name, it has not just an application but an entire strategy of its employment and specific techniques it changes into. It has its specific method of Shenfa, for generating power and avoiding the opponents attack. It follows the principles of Shaolin which are many. This is the same for every old style in China.

  11. #11
    the questions can be replied via two questions:

    1. authenticity of the Shaolin kung fu styles that are practiced at the temple;

    2. where are the applications of the styles, and if the applications that are done today are authentic. i would like to extend this question to the authenticity of the training methods, if so, the whole body of Shaolin kung fu is covered.
    _________

    for the 1st question, see the detailed answer in this thread:
    http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=65348
    the overall answer is that the kung fu styles that are practiced in the temple are authentic. because of the more clear nature of the question here, i would like to add one important point to the materials of this thread. i'll post it here.

    for the 2nd question, about the applications and training methods, Ren explained the problem with the 'modern kung fu/wushu schools.' about the traditional methods of practicing, application, and fighting, the answer is the same as the 1st question: they are all not only extant, but quite popular. i don't have the time to explain it now, maybe a few hours later.
    Last edited by SHemmati; 08-03-2013 at 09:29 PM.

  12. #12
    so are you saying shaolin has two kinds of schools,both a wushu one and the authentic? cause if so i have had teachers from both,and both can show some applications,theory ...both something seems missing or wrong about them.

  13. #13
    So most of people going with wushu the show based one.
    And very less people practicing teachings of survivor monks.
    Thanks for cares and answers.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz cool c View Post
    so are you saying shaolin has two kinds of schools,both a wushu one and the authentic? cause if so i have had teachers from both,and both can show some applications,theory ...both something seems missing or wrong about them.
    If something seems missing then I don't think that will be correct. Song shan Shaolin is incredibly dense with technique and theory.

    One form is not just a simple collection of moves, but also contains entire strategies of combat.

    If you can give me an example of something you learned with application you think is missing something then I can understand your view more clearly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    So most of people going with wushu the show based one.
    And very less people practicing teachings of survivor monks.
    Thanks for cares and answers.
    When you have schools with 20,000 students, of course the quality of Kung Fu passed on is going to degrade somewhat. I'd still say Song Mountain has a higher density of good Kung fu than most other places in China. And Sooo many people practice Shaolin, there is still a lot of good Shaolin compared to most other styles.

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