Evolution of Tai Chi/Chi Kung as Martial Arts

[Hebrew Hammer]

I was wondering how Tai Chi or Chi Kung became a standard complimentary art of hard/external TCMA. Almost all styles CLF, Mantis, Wing Chun, Shaolin, or whatever offer this soft style/ internal martial art as part of their school curriculum? How did this evolve? Is it simply a yin/yang thing?

It occurred to me that at least locally, due to the popularity of MMA, more and more TCMA schools are now adding BJJ as the third arm of Modern TCMA. I understand this evolution, it makes them relevant and popular.

I know Chi Kung is said to predate Tai Chi, yet Tai Chi became very relevant at some point...any thoughts?

[bawang]

this is the short but complete answer for the total evolution of tai chi

-doing forms slow and smooth was common in longfist systems for beginner training

-supernatural powers was common part of snake oil kung fu

-yang luchan failed the imperial exams but made enough friends to join the retinue of prince duan through backdoor.

-Manchu riflemen were deemed too physically weak to train wrestling, they changed to training tai chi.

-his grandson yang chengfu had the idea of mimicking the elegant slow imperial court dance, then built a new mythology to explain why his martial art had suddenly slowed to snail crawl.

[ShaolinDan]

Not a historian, but I gather qigong has been a part of most styles for a very very long time. Adding taiji I believe is relatively recent and is mostly about marketing. Taiji is even more popular than Bjj.

[bawang]

relatives of tai chi:

hongdong county tongbei, with direct lineage connection to chen tai chi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guUn8BH7pNM

julu village longfist, with indirect connection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY8uKue-orI


you can see the similarity in the salute

[mawali]

It appears that when the modern era came into being (1900-I know not the exact date) the designation 'taijiquan' was born.
1. We all know the origin was Chen family village MA
2. We all know Chen family incorporated style of their village
3. We all know Yang family initially got the designation but as more Chen people came to Beijing, they realized that Chen village art was the origin
4. With modernization, they were all lumped together as part of that new taijiquan movement national treasure

Bawang's links show that reformulation of an art is possible with the proper input and skill!

[xinyidizi]

Taiji's refined body mechanics was like an upgraded version of some northern styles. After it got popular some smart people also installed the update in their systems.

[bawang]

Taiji's refined body mechanics was like an upgraded version of some northern styles. After it got popular some smart people also installed the update in their systems.

lol noe

sdfsdfsgf

[Jimbo]

I was wondering how Tai Chi or Chi Kung became a standard complimentary art of hard/external TCMA. Almost all styles CLF, Mantis, Wing Chun, Shaolin, or whatever offer this soft style/ internal martial art as part of their school curriculum? How did this evolve? Is it simply a yin/yang thing?

It occurred to me that at least locally, due to the popularity of MMA, more and more TCMA schools are now adding BJJ as the third arm of Modern TCMA. I understand this evolution, it makes them relevant and popular.

I know Chi Kung is said to predate Tai Chi, yet Tai Chi became very relevant at some point...any thoughts?

Not only CMAists, but many karate people also do Taiji to complement their main art. One particularly famous example is (was?) Shotokan pioneer Kanazawa. He had mentioned in an interview that it taught him to use a relaxed energy to complement the hard energy of Shotokan.

However, is Taiji more healthy than other MA? Not necessarily. I've seen many middle-aged and elderly people, some who were teachers, who trained only Taiji, who did not seem healthy at all. In fact, I knew an old man in Taipei who had been a bodybuilder when he was young, had trained some 'Shaolin', and whose main mode of exercise when I knew him was brisk walking. He literally walked circles around the other old men who taught Taiji, and was physically in superior shape, and mentally much sharper and 'alive' than they were. He was also surprisingly strong for his age (at the time, probably his late 70s or early 80s). He claimed he never studied Taiji.

[YouKnowWho]

-doing forms slow and smooth was common in longfist systems for beginner training.

This is not true for my branch of the longfist system. When I was young, one day I was tired from doing something else. I did my longfist form in slow motion. My longfist teacher told me that if I didn't feel like to train in "combat" speed then don't train it at all. After that day, I have never trained my longfist in slow speed. The slow speed training to me is a "bad habit" by itself.

Even today, the slow speed training just remind me that an old man is dying. Not much youth and live energy at all.

[crazedjustice88]

I can tell why MY sifu incorporates the tai chi he has learned from Kuo Yuen Ling. My sifu stresses the tai chi because of the suppleness and togetherness it teaches the students. It forces the body to move everything at once and this causes a tremendous amount of power to come out in connected strikes. Also it just teaches people to relax. I know when I spar I tend to get anxious and tense, but since i have been doing a lot of tai chi lately, that hasn't been the case and its easier for me to relax while hitting and getting hit.

[Kellen Bassette]

Even today, the slow speed training just remind me that an old man is dying. Not much youth and live energy at all.

I know most people have accepted that Taiji has completely lost all martial application. There are still a handful that teach it as a "combat art." I have seen many people teach Taiji applications, but have never met anyone who trained it as a true combat art.

Anyone can see that simply training slow and soft is counter intuitive to fighting. So how does one train taiji for combat? Is there anyone doing live, hard contact sparring? (Not just controlled push hands.) Is there anyone conditioning their strikes, or training strength?

I ask this in seriousness, not to make any kind of point.....

[bawang]

Anyone can see that simply training slow and soft is counter intuitive to fighting. So how does one train taiji for combat?

lift weights in secret

[xinyidizi]

I know most people have accepted that Taiji has completely lost all martial application. There are still a handful that teach it as a "combat art." I have seen many people teach Taiji applications, but have never met anyone who trained it as a true combat art.

Anyone can see that simply training slow and soft is counter intuitive to fighting. So how does one train taiji for combat? Is there anyone doing live, hard contact sparring? (Not just controlled push hands.) Is there anyone conditioning their strikes, or training strength?

I ask this in seriousness, not to make any kind of point.....

People train slowly as part of their training so that they can develop better body coordination, understand Jin and fix their stiffness so that they can move faster and more powerful. Dai xinyi people spend a lot of time on internal development and slow training. Tell me if this dai xinyi guy is not fast enough:
http://www.56.com/u94/v_Nzk3MDY2MTE.html

[YouKnowWho]

People train slowly as part of their training so that they can develop better body coordination, understand Jin and fix their stiffness so that they can move faster and more powerful.

How long do people need to train slow in order to "develop better body coordination, understand Jin and fix their stiffness"? 3 years? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

What if peole just did slow training all their life and have never tried the fast training method at all?

If slow is to achieve fast then "the older that you are, the faster that you should move". This just don't seem to be the case for some Taiji people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsDPy7zMrA4

[crazedjustice88]

It's not really a question of how long it takes. Our bodies always get better and stronger, that's why Sifu introduces it from day 1. It's just one of those things you never stop training. So yeah, it all depends on if you get content with your abilities. But that itself goes against gong fu. Human excellence is never achieved, we just strive for it.