Evolution of Tai Chi/Chi Kung as Martial Arts

[Cheng oi]

----------- Chinese Dubbed Khmer

[FullPotentialMA]

I was wondering how Tai Chi or Chi Kung became a standard complimentary art of hard/external TCMA. Almost all styles CLF, Mantis, Wing Chun, Shaolin, or whatever offer this soft style/ internal martial art as part of their school curriculum? How did this evolve? Is it simply a yin/yang thing?

It occurred to me that at least locally, due to the popularity of MMA, more and more TCMA schools are now adding BJJ as the third arm of Modern TCMA. I understand this evolution, it makes them relevant and popular.

I know Chi Kung is said to predate Tai Chi, yet Tai Chi became very relevant at some point...any thoughts?

We have a short history of Tai Chi here, courtesy of our martial arts school in San Diego.
The short answer is that Tai Chi, in its current form, is actually quite young -- from the 19th century. With respect to "internal" and "external" -- that designation is actually quite recent (~50 years). Martial arts of yesteryears understood both internal and external power generation and did not classify themselves as one or the other.

[omarthefish]

I probably didn't word my original query very well, I was trying to find out why Tai Chi, Chi Kung, or even more recently Yoga is taught as meditative and chi development tool?

Mostly because:

A system with T'ai Chi Ch'uan added within forty years or so, it might be marketing. Why China would push it is it's like a discovery and they get credited. It's fool proof with high margins for volumous usage. you don't pull muscles doing it and every aged person can do it now or youth can look forward to being expert when they are too long-lived for rugby.

If I'm a baker of bread but business dwindles I might realize I can market to weddings, birthday parties and events through cakes then cupcakes--dirves. Schools might add T'ai Chi Ch'uan to the cirriculum to get more paying customers in the angle of Stress relief. Versatile enough to include meditation or spirituality...stack the demographics, load 'er-up.

Also, your original question "begs the question":Is Taiji a standard complimentary art of hard/external TCMA?

I'd say that no, it isn't. There's nothing standard about that at all. In fact, it's almost non-existent. It's generally just added in so that people can have more stuff to teach or so that there's a class that less athletic people can get into.

And also:

Tai Chi and QiGong were, according to what I've been told, originally their own martial arts. And were taught as such...

Still are and still are...provided that the teacher actually has that skill set which is pretty rare. So what do you do if you do not have actual Taijiquan combat skill...

... but for the most part they now are emphasized as health, chi, energy, or meditative arts.

Now even if the teacher does have high level skill with Taijiquan, there's still the market issue. Taijiquan provides lots of different things to lots of different people. So even with a really good teacher with combat skill, there are still going to be a lot of students who just aren't attracted to it for those reasons. The short answer is that Taiji is typically taught as a "meditative and chi development tool" because that's what most people want to get out of it.

[Cheng oi]

I need to learn the martial side of it - it seems I always have to get into a whole bunch of fights - no matter how much I try to avoid them - if you are trying to avoid confrontation - bad drill Sargents & doc guards will always start fights with you -
not to mention Mr. Satan Right there --> X --- & all those other fools --
What has the world come to ????

I was just trying to be healthy & exercise

[YouKnowWho]

Taiji is typically taught as a "meditative and chi development tool" because that's what most people want to get out of it.

I tried to start a new Sanda class in Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. The program director said they already have enough MA classes, and they don't need another one. But they would like to have a Taiji class if I'm willing to teach.

For some people, Taiji is not even considered as MA at all.

If Chen Taij guys could fight MT guys, I should be able to teach a "Taji Sanda" class. The problem is, if I teach a

- Sanda class, I'll get students who are interested in combat.
- Taiji class, I'll get students who are interested in health, self-cultivation, inner peace, and performance.

Are there such students who are interested in combat and also interest in health, self-cultivation, inner peace, and performance? How many such students exist on this planet?

[pazman]

Are there such students who are interested in combat and also interest in health, self-cultivation, inner peace, and performance? How many such students exist on this planet?

I'm such a student and attempt to instill those values in my students. After a good, hard sparring session I feel at peace, I've looked deep inside myself and become a more honest person. A proper, athletic sanda session is healthier than any taiji class.

For most taiji people, these things are just out of their grasp, and their teachers dangle a carrot in front of them. A new qigong set, further work on developing "structure", or learning a taolu that is twice as long as the one they learned before are all seen as another step to achieving health and inner peace.

[Scott R. Brown]

I tried to start a new Sanda class in Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. The program director said they already have enough MA classes, and they don't need another one. But they would like to have a Taiji class if I'm willing to teach.

This is what happens when people who don't know anything about martial arts decide what should be taught or not. He doesn't realize what you have to offer is more valuable than anything else being taught at the school.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Re: Tai Chi exercise vs Martial Art

Did any of you consider mind control as a reason for the push foe the health aspects of Tai Chi and, later, Wushu?

A weak, docile, nation is very easy to control; a strong, warrior, nation is very difficult to honor.


mickey

[Jimbo]

When I was going through massage therapy school, Taiji was one of the requirements needed to pass to go beyond the school's introductory course. It was a shortened Yang form; there was no martial emphasis. We had to learn it to develop 'whole-body movement' and proper posture/stance while massaging, as opposed to just using the hands/arms. I didn't need it, as I could already do that with my previous MA training, but it was still required. Once I passed that examination, I stopped doing the Taiji.

I've started and soon stopped Taiji about 3 times in my life. I suppose it's not my cup of tea.

[Alex Córdoba]

Are there such students who are interested in combat and also interest in health, self-cultivation, inner peace, and performance? How many such students exist on this planet?

In my opinion that's a contradiction.. like loosing weight with liposuction.

[Miqi]

Greetings,

Re: Tai Chi exercise vs Martial Art

Did any of you consider mind control as a reason for the push foe the health aspects of Tai Chi and, later, Wushu?

A weak, docile, nation is very easy to control; a strong, warrior, nation is very difficult to honor.


mickey

You've obviously never met a professional level wushu athlete from China. They are all superbly fit and atheletic, in most cases much stronger and fitter than an average wester martial arts "expert", and usually with far more authentic knowledge of traditional wushu, which is as rare as hen's teeth in the west.

And b, if that was true they wouldn't have introduced san da, and built a massive army.

And c, you must know zero about China. There are literally tens of thousands of riots in China every year - I mean, tens of thousands. It's always astonishing how people have these bizarre notions about wushu, when wushu players are so much better, and generally have so much more authentic knowledge and skill than the people who criticise them.

[Miqi]

A big part of the problem is that people think they have a right to a living from wushu. If you don't teach for money, then you don't have to worry about things being taught in ways that you don't agree with. Chinese martial arts would improve massively overnight if 99% of the commercial schools in the West simply closed.

[Miqi]

they share the same salute.


tai chi exaggerated the slow aspect of longfist and fabricated a mythology around it. then it became popular exercise for physically weak manchus.

That's just ignorance, but one which the physically weak who pretend to know taijiquan have made easy to believe. But ignorance nevertheless.

[Jimbo]

You've obviously never met a professional level wushu athlete from China. They are all superbly fit and atheletic, in most cases much stronger and fitter than an average wester martial arts "expert", and usually with far more authentic knowledge of traditional wushu, which is as rare as hen's teeth in the west.

And b, if that was true they wouldn't have introduced san da, and built a massive army.

And c, you must know zero about China. There are literally tens of thousands of riots in China every year - I mean, tens of thousands. It's always astonishing how people have these bizarre notions about wushu, when wushu players are so much better, and generally have so much more authentic knowledge and skill than the people who criticise them.

FWIW, Jet Li himself, as well as several of his Beijing Wushu Team contemporaries, openly admitted that, while they certainly understood the performance aspect of wushu, they did not know how to fight for real. Among wushu athletes, they were the best of the best, at least during their time, and for many years after. Perhaps of all time. I don't see any reason why they would have said that if it weren't true.

Of course, someone might say they said that to 'hide' their real knowledge from the general public or the West, or they were being humble. I don't buy it.

Obviously, more recent wushu athletes whose training includes sanda would be different.