Forms?

[crazedjustice88]

I was wondering what people look for in good forms from people that can use them.

I have seen some forms that look absolutely beautiful. Lots of snap, rotational power, deep stances and the like, but once I spar with them or watch them do it, they can't use it. On the other hand, I have seen kung fu guys with absolutely lazy forms but can beat the ever living crap out of you.

In my sifus hop gar, we don't snap a lot and people don't find our forms pretty, but apparently, David Chin's Hop Gar has a reputation for that and fighting hahaha

I'm just wondering if there is a general guide line to go by when looking at forms to see if people can use it or if ultimately its anyones guess when just looking at forms.

[YouKnowWho]

You don't want to allow forms to define what you can do. You are the master. Forms are your slave.

Here is an example.

- Groin kick (kick),
- parry (block),
- face punch (punch),
- pull punch back,
- arm wrap (clinch),
- throat grab,
- leg hook (throw),
- head smash,
- Knee drop (ground strike),
- arm bar (ground lock).

There exist no forms that contain this combo sequence. The TCMA forms have not evolved into this stage yet. If you let forms to define you, you will never come up such kick, punch, lock, throw, ground game integration. If you make this combo sequence into a form, 1000 years later, it will become "ancient" form.

Create your own forms. Never let forms to create you.

[crazedjustice88]

Hahaha, I know. Thanks for that though, I used to struggle with that all the time, and sometimes I still do. I was just wondering if you were watching a demonstration would you be able to tell if someone could use what they are demonstrating from just simply watching the forms.

[Kellen Bassette]

Forms do not a fighter make.

Why? Glad you asked. You can't develop timing, distance and power through form training. Without these attributes it is just dance.

[Lucas]

i think thats a yes and no answer. i've seen people who are horrible at forms but could fight with the techniques housed in their form, and on the flip side, people who are great at forms and couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

IMO, the only time forms are useful is if there are fundamental building blocks that are being transmitted through the repetition of technique and movement transition. i think its more important to learn the technique outside of the form first, learn how it is applied, and learn how to bring that into play in free sparring, then learn the form that holds that technique.

i also think you would be just fine never learning any forms at all ever. i believe any style can transmit their combatives without the use of forms, and probably to a more effecient degree.

[crazedjustice88]

I don't think my initial post got what I was trying to get across...hahaha

I'm fully aware forms don't make fighters. I was just wondering what makes people say things like flowery fists and embroidered legs when simply just seeing the form and nothing else from the individual.

[YouKnowWho]

just seeing the form and nothing else from the individual.

Combat involves timing, opportunity, angle, power, balance. Form can only show power and balance. It won't be able to show timing, opportunity, and angle.

[Lucas]

I don't think my initial post got what I was trying to get across...hahaha

I'm fully aware forms don't make fighters. I was just wondering what makes people say things like flowery fists and embroidered legs when simply just seeing the form and nothing else from the individual.

a lot of those terms come from the adjustments made when structuring a form for performance purposes. things like locked elbows/knees, extra rotation, unnecessary jumping or flying, 'technique mimicry', 'flailing' etc.

so the yes and no to that question can also come in the form of experience in the techniques you are watching someone perform, but also in the way similar techniques are often 'played' in a sequence.

on average i would say the answer is no. but sometimes there are things so glaringly obvious, the answer becomes yes. i can generally spot a full contemp wushu player in the first sections of a form. likewise very application oriented people will be much less flashy, more substance and you can generally see that played out in the way they present technique. when and where power is applied is usually another sign. aesthetically power looks better in other places than it does when we are thinking combat only.

there are some serious no no's when it comes to combat, so anytime you see these things pop up in a form its a good cause to question.

[Kellen Bassette]

I'm fully aware forms don't make fighters. I was just wondering what makes people say things like flowery fists and embroidered legs when simply just seeing the form and nothing else from the individual.

Sometimes it just looks "flowery" it's just the best word to describe it.

[bawang]

In my sifus hop gar, we don't snap a lot and people don't find our forms pretty, but apparently, David Chin's Hop Gar has a reputation for that and fighting hahaha

all real northern kung fu forms look like hap ga

crisp, high jump, low stance are mandatory modern wushu competition guidelines, that's why you see it so much

[crazedjustice88]

all real northern kung fu forms look like hap ga

crisp, high jump, low stance are mandatory modern wushu competition guidelines, that's why you see it so much

That makes sense. When I have done the forms no one likes them unless I overdo the low stances and snap hahaha. Makes sense man. Thanks.

[Dragonzbane76]

i think its more important to learn the technique outside of the form first, learn how it is applied, and learn how to bring that into play in free sparring, then learn the form that holds that technique.

what it should be....
But most don't follow that guide in TCMA

[Dragonzbane76]

Lucas I just noticed your location. that's awesome your from midgard, I know some people there. much better place than my current location of Niflheim, of course nothing beats asgard.

[Lucas]

Lucas I just noticed your location. that's awesome your from midgard, I know some people there. much better place than my current location of Niflheim, of course nothing beats asgard.

I hear shat burns cold down there!

[lance]

I was wondering what people look for in good forms from people that can use them.

I have seen some forms that look absolutely beautiful. Lots of snap, rotational power, deep stances and the like, but once I spar with them or watch them do it, they can't use it. On the other hand, I have seen kung fu guys with absolutely lazy forms but can beat the ever living crap out of you.

In my sifus hop gar, we don't snap a lot and people don't find our forms pretty, but apparently, David Chin's Hop Gar has a reputation for that and fighting hahaha

I'm just wondering if there is a general guide line to go by when looking at forms to see if people can use it or if ultimately its anyones guess when just looking at forms.

That ' s because Sifu David Chin knows how to fight using movements from the forms , well in TCMA forms can also be called sets . It ' s really up to you to ask the Sifu the usages behind each movement of the form or set . Then learn how to fight using the applications or usages from the set . Theres' a reason behind each movement of the set . Each style or system has a certain number of set , in each set theres' certain number of moves all representing a kick or punch , block or interception hand techniques . If theres' a knee raise and kick , it could represent a knee strike as you move into your opponents body followed by a kick to the body area of the opponent .