It's not in the forms

[YouKnowWho]

A: The WC system doesn't have "hip throw".
B: There are over 20 + kind of "hip throw" in WC. They are just not in the WC forms.

A: The Taiji system doesn't have "flying side kick".
B: There are over 20 + kind of "flying side kick" in Taiji. They are just not in the Taiji forms.

A: The longfist system doesn't have "flying knee".
B: There are over 20 + kind of "flying knee" in longfist. They are just not in the longfist forms.

Who is right? A or B?

How will you be able to know that a certain technique is not from "cross training" if it's not in the forms? Your thought?

[-N-]

How will you be able to know that a certain technique is not from "cross training" if it's not in the forms? Your thought?

Have a legit teacher and pay attention?

[Syn7]

How do you know a teacher is legit? Is lineage enough? Does that guarantee there was no cross training? How do you know your sigung didn't add stuff? Define legit.

[Kellen Bassette]

Define legit.

[PalmStriker]

Hammer Fist?

[Kellen Bassette]

Too legit to quit....

[YouKnowWho]

My teacher integrated XingYi Pi Chuan into his Taiji "cross leg". If I didn't know that my teacher had "cross training" in the XingYi system, I may think that Pi Chuan exists in the Taiji system.

[Kellen Bassette]

My teacher integrated XingYi Pi Chuan into his Taiji "cross leg". If I didn't know that my teacher had "cross training" in the XingYi system, I may think that Pi Chuan exists in the Taiji system.

Maybe it does now, if his students are teaching it that way.

[Jimbo]

A: The WC system doesn't have "hip throw".
B: There are over 20 + kind of "hip throw" in WC. They are just not in the WC forms.

A: The Taiji system doesn't have "flying side kick".
B: There are over 20 + kind of "flying side kick" in Taiji. They are just not in the Taiji forms.

A: The longfist system doesn't have "flying knee".
B: There are over 20 + kind of "flying knee" in longfist. They are just not in the longfist forms.

Who is right? A or B?

How will you be able to know that a certain technique is not from "cross training" if it's not in the forms? Your thought?

Why couldn't er qi jiao (jumping front kick) in Long Fist be a flying knee? If you simply modify it by not kicking out your lower leg and extending the knee forward instead?

Then someone might say, 'Well then, why not just do a flying knee?'

Forms are stylized representations of fighting movements or ideas interlinked in preset patterns. As we all know, in many instances, actual applications often look different from the way the move is done in the form. A form is dead, no matter how much 'life' you may try to interject into it. Any technique becomes alive only when its concepts are absorbed by some level of understanding and ability to apply it outside of preset conditions. It's highly unlikely anyone could do that with every technique in any given form. So forms are not a necessity for fighting, but if kept in perspective, can have their place for a practitioner. They're a good method of training the body to move from unique positions you wouldn't make in ordinary life.

All MA styles are a result of cross-training. Why do Japanese and many Okinawan karate practitioners place such emphasis on roundhouse kicks when those aren't in their forms? I would be surprised if a teacher's way of practicing wasn't colored in some way by his own personal experience, and that means familiarity with other methods.

[bawang]

Who is right? A or B?

How will you be able to know that a certain technique is not from "cross training" if it's not in the forms? Your thought?

somebody say everything is in the form, you are not happy. I say not everything is in a form, you are still not happy. a form is a seed and an example. its not an encyclopedia.

How will you be able to know that a certain technique is not from "cross training" if it's not in the forms? Your thought?

there is no shame from "cross training"

[Kellen Bassette]

A: The longfist system doesn't have "flying knee".
B: There are over 20 + kind of "flying knee" in longfist. They are just not in the longfist forms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT6SSyAyjv4

I think you could interpret the move at 0:04 as a flying knee. This may be a modern form, but does that matter? I guess the next question is were you using the term "Long Fist" specifically or generically? Does that include Shaolin or Ying Jow Pai, both which teach this form in some schools....

[Kellen Bassette]

All MA styles are a result of cross-training. Why do Japanese and many Okinawan karate practitioners place such emphasis on roundhouse kicks when those aren't in their forms?

I know...right???

[Syn7]

Personally, I always thought of purity as a lack of sophistication. But that's just me.

[yutyeesam]

It seems that when you become a student of principles, styles matter less and less.

[David Jamieson]

It seems that when you become a student of principles, styles matter less and less.

There you go.