Archery

[boxerbilly]

Bawang, you have a good night trying to trash me and who ever else you like to. Im hitting the sack.

[Cataphract]

he is literally making sh1t up. he literally admits on video he self taught by reading a story book about archery. not even technique just stories. i have broken those wood toy bows after shooting 5 times

Breaking bows happen and you don't want to be near that. Mr. Andersen has already been thoroughly thrashed for his claims, but what he does certainly looks fun and takes some skill.

traditional archery use both side draws for either fast shooting or sniping, theres nothing mysterious about it, hes just having one of those convoluted talks blowing hot air, you see it in tai chi or wing chun all the time.

What traditional archery are you talking about? Kyudo draws on the outside. Real Turkish archery draws on the outside. Japanese yumi usually have a draw strength up 30kg.
Ever seen one of the Khoe-San people's bows? The most traditional there is. You could probably break it with one hand. But then you'd go hungry in the Okawango delta.

[boxerbilly]

Most bows of the Iroquois nation would have a draw weight very similar to Lars bow. 30-45 pounds, depending on the archer. Short light fast bows. Meant for close kills and rapid fire. Look up Hiawatha.

Its all tactics and battleground. What works where. You can get more umph from a lighter bow by using heavier arrows. I read a 88lbs draw penetrated a English tank. Plate steel. Those 100+ bows and those 200lb monster. There was maybe one guy that could even pull the **** thing in any army. Maybe a dozen in the world at anyone time. Probably meant for a try and hit the enemy commander from far out and if we do, we might just win with one shot. Up close, in wooded areas. Screw the longbow ! Better for open fields and shooting down from the Great Wall.

Lars proved he could go through riveted chain mail with his 35 pound draw. And could shot 10 arrows accurately in like 2 seconds. Besting even the fastest speed shooters. Pretty sure a 50lb draw could penetrate breast plate armour. You would have to land flush and be at the proper distances.

Those super long shots are meaningless. Even if they get to a target they lose all force and they are not going through armour at great distance. Not going to happen! One may get lucky and nail a leg or face but it is mostly luck if you put someone down from real far out. Once on the battle field with friend and foe alike clustered. ByeBye Long bow unless you don't mind killing your guys. Get to close and a guys with a smaller, lighter bows will drop you. Long bows severed a very specific purpose. LONG RANGE.

This idea that Old archers were so much stronger than people today is utter nonsense. Todays archers are probably stronger as a whole than days past. The rare bow god always exists.

People are not going to ride horse back and use 150lb draws. That is just made up crap. Again, a handful of people could maybe do it. Not every **** bowmen. For the most part, then as now. Most suck ! Some are okay. Some very good and a very few are amazing. Capable of things Lars can do or guys that can pull a 100+ bow. Not many can then or now !

Those bows for on that ship. The bowmen were probably the best long range archers England had and they all died. Why so many bows at that weight? Well, they each probably had different bows for different ranges. And back ups. The average English bowmen probably used a 50lb draw and under most of the time. Maybe carried a 80ish for medium range.

I don't care what China sold people that all their archers had to pull this weight with both arms all freaking day long. It is BULL! Because if they had that many that could do it then with small undernourished soldiers, well we should have an equal amount ( ratio wise ) capable of the same today and we do not ! That is telling !

[bawang]

This idea that Old archers were so much stronger than people today is utter nonsense. Todays archers are probably stronger as a whole than days past. The rare bow god always exists.

People are not going to ride horse back and use 150lb draws. That is just made up crap. Again, a handful of people could maybe do it. Not every **** bowmen. For the most part, then as now. Most suck ! Some are okay. Some very good and a very few are amazing. Capable of things Lars can do or guys that can pull a 100+ bow. Not many can then or now !

you literally cannot imagine someone stronger than a office cubicle worker, then it is impossible. which is pathetic since most white people can deadlift 400-500 lb after 2 to 3 years of training. 100lb draw bow is like pullup with 200 lb bodyweight. 150lb draw is perfectly reasonable for any football guys that can row 300 lb. but that takes hard training. this norweigian nerd is the wing chun of archery. he doesnt deserve to be on tv. you are mad because me criticizing him made you look bad since you were fawning over him. you think hendrik is a skilled master. and you are old. you have no future in martial arts, its finished for you, you wasted your youth when you could have been good in your hobby.

What traditional archery are you talking about? Kyudo draws on the outside. Real Turkish archery draws on the outside. Japanese yumi usually have a draw strength up 30kg.
Ever seen one of the Khoe-San people's bows? The most traditional there is. You could probably break it with one hand. But then you'd go hungry in the Okawango delta.

chinese archery text. you are really trying to lecture me on traditional martial arts when you ask for 4 months what is tongbei?

[sanjuro_ronin]

RE Draw weights:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow

Draw weights[edit]
Estimates for the draw of these bows varies considerably. Before the recovery of the Mary Rose, Count M. Mildmay Stayner, Recorder of the British Long Bow Society, estimated the bows of the Medieval period drew 90–110 pounds-force (400–490 newtons), maximum, and Mr. W.F. Paterson, Chairman of the Society of Archer-Antiquaries, believed the weapon had a supreme draw weight of only 80–90 lbf (360–400 N).[2] Other sources suggest significantly higher draw weights. The original draw forces of examples from the Mary Rose are estimated by Robert Hardy at 150–160 lbf (670–710 N) at a 30-inch (76.2 cm) draw length; the full range of draw weights was between 100–185 lbf (440–820 N).[9] The 30-inch (76.2 cm) draw length was used because that is the length allowed by the arrows commonly found on the Mary Rose.

A modern longbow's draw is typically 60 lbf (270 N) or less, and by modern convention measured at 28 inches (71.1 cm). Historically, hunting bows usually had draw weights of 50–60 lbf (220–270 N), which is enough for all but the very largest game and which most reasonably fit adults can manage with practice. Today, there are few modern longbowmen capable of using 180–185 lbf (800–820 N) bows accurately.[10][11]

A record of how boys and men trained to use the bows with high draw weights survives from the reign of Henry VII.

"[My yeoman father] taught me how to draw, how to lay my body in my bow ... not to draw with strength of arms as divers other nations do ... I had my bows bought me according to my age and strength, as I increased in them, so my bows were made bigger and bigger. For men shall never shoot well unless they be brought up to it."

— Hugh Latimer.[12]
What Latimer meant when he describes laying his body into the bow was described thus:

the Englishman did not keep his left hand steady, and draw his bow with his right; but keeping his right at rest upon the nerve, he pressed the whole weight of his body into the horns of his bow. Hence probably arose the phrase "bending the bow," and the French of "drawing" one.

— W. Gilpin.[13]

Mongol bow:

http://www.coldsiberia.org/monbow.htm

The Mongol bow is not as large and long as the English one, but it is vastly more powerful. The draw weight of an English longbow averages around 70-80 pounds, whereas the Old Mongol bow had a pull that, according to George Vernadsky, averaged at around 166 pounds. Chambers states that the pull varied from 100 to 160 pounds. This seeming discrepancy certainly reflects the fact that draw weight varied with the strength of the user, and with what use the bow had been made for. As could be expected, there was a considerable difference in shooting range. Whereas the English longbow could shoot at distances up to 250 yards or around 228 meters, the Mongol counterpart can hit its target at 350 yards or 320 meters and, if the archer is well trained for the task, even beyond that.

[Cataphract]

chinese archery text. you are really trying to lecture me on traditional martial arts when you ask for 4 months what is tongbei?

I'm stating some simple facts without taking four months of preparation. I am trying to learn something and not to have pointless arguments.

But on topic, I found some nice quotations by the great sage:

The Superior Man has nothing to compete for. But if he must compete, he does it in an archery match, wherein he ascends to his position, bowing in deference.

In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself.

[boxerbilly]

you literally cannot imagine someone stronger than a office cubicle worker, then it is impossible. which is pathetic since most white people can deadlift 400-500 lb after 2 to 3 years of training. 100lb draw bow is like pullup with 200 lb bodyweight. 150lb draw is perfectly reasonable for any football guys that can row 300 lb. but that takes hard training. this norweigian nerd is the wing chun of archery. he doesnt deserve to be on tv. you are mad because me criticizing him made you look bad since you were fawning over him. you think hendrik is a skilled master. and you are old. you have no future in martial arts, its finished for you, you wasted your youth when you could have been good in your hobby.


chinese archery text. you are really trying to lecture me on traditional martial arts when you ask for 4 months what is tongbei?

Oh for **** sakes. I know nothing about Hendrick. I could care less what anyone's opinion of the guy is. He wrote a book. Did you ? He put himself out there. Did you? I wish the guy loads of success. So what? Seems a nice guy and means well. If someone does not like his stuff, don't buy it. Simple as that !

Buddy, just because some dudes can pull a 200lb bow does not mean they can use the freaking bow. Nor can they do it all **** day long. Yes, Ive seen vids of guys pulling heavy bows. BIG DEAL ! It means nothing to me. There is even a guy pulling a 6 foot whatever longbow on Youtube and he actually sinks the arrow from 10 feet away, LOL. That's my point ! Show me the hundreds or thousands capable of that LEGEND. You wont. They don't exist and they never did ! As you pointed out and I do not agree it is white exclusive, we are stronger now than ever before.

As for me being done. I agree. My days of stepping into a ring are over. How did you do when you fought a guy in gloves trying to actually take your head off and beat the crap out of you? How did you do on the street? Lose teeth? Need stitches? Break anything? I suspect you still fight full contact right? Is that real kung fu ? Is that push up routine ( thank you) real kung fu? Is there real kung fu ? And with your stability issues buddy. Why are you still here. I bet your done too !

[boxerbilly]

you literally cannot imagine someone stronger than a office cubicle worker, then it is impossible. which is pathetic since most white people can deadlift 400-500 lb after 2 to 3 years of training. 100lb draw bow is like pullup with 200 lb bodyweight. 150lb draw is perfectly reasonable for any football guys that can row 300 lb. but that takes hard training. this norweigian nerd is the wing chun of archery. he doesnt deserve to be on tv. you are mad because me criticizing him made you look bad since you were fawning over him. you think hendrik is a skilled master. and you are old. you have no future in martial arts, its finished for you, you wasted your youth when you could have been good in your hobby.


chinese archery text. you are really trying to lecture me on traditional martial arts when you ask for 4 months what is tongbei?

Bawang, I worked in trades. Lots of real strong guys that would beat the crap out of most people trained or not ! OMG dude.

Be critical all you like but you are wrong in my opinion ! That makes me angry ? I disagree with you. You write mean, Ill write mean. You put me down, well we can have a lot of fun with that. Im from NY and I am dyslexic. I LOVE WORDS !

[boxerbilly]

Yep, I would love to see some idiot chase me into the woods with that contraption, LOL.

WARBOW held by a TARGET !

[boxerbilly]

RE Draw weights:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow


Mongol bow:

http://www.coldsiberia.org/monbow.htm

I disagree regardless what bows they find. English, Mongol, whatever. They vast majority were not pulling 100 pound bows. As stated the bow was made for the user. So, England needs another bowmen. ****, the old ones got shot by weaker bows at a closer range or drowned in that ship. So, they have to draft youngmen around 15. Yeah, hand him the 100 pound bow. Nope, he will get a weaker bow he can use. But it is not a warbow because he is not pulling 100+? CRAP ! Most people then and now do not have the bone structure for this. Just like then and now do not have the bone structure to be fighters. We have not changed physically.

Same for Mongols. The ELITE used those heavy pulls. I bet the average guy used around 50 like everyone else does. Half your army bowmen would be out on injury incapable of pulling a bow if they used such heavy draws all day long as Bawang believes they did. I guess some people believe their shoulders muscle were way stronger than today. I don't !

As for technique. Thank you sir. It is similar to the bent press. Basically the English were holding the string and pushing the bow. Bent press, hold the weight and lower the body away.Still, few then as now capable of doing that with a massive pull.

[boxerbilly]

BIG GUY !

[boxerbilly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrzPFIjAZdU

Strong guy.

If you are not built like these guys, GOOD LUCK !

I wonder how many Mongol and English bowmen had these types of body capable of sustained heavy pulls ? But, no way either guy does this all day or 100 arrows either hand back to back. LEGENDS or MYTHS.

[boxerbilly]

Im not watching it to count but again, better be looking like these guys or your just a joke that uses toy bow and arrows, LOL.

Of course 50lbs will drop just about anything alive but that is regardless I guess.

[boxerbilly]

I'll let you guys decide if a 50lb ancient bow could go through armour plate or chain at the right "close" distance. Which is normally where most archers were employed. Pretty **** close by anyone's standards Id say. Not some super far off shooters trying to snipe dudes from way out for that time.

[boxerbilly]

RANGE- how many guys then or now are capable of even this shot? Long bows can maybe double this range but who can freaking see that far ? So, it was LUCK. And armys lined up and you are just lobbing arrows in that direction. IT WORKED because of the formations. But guess what. At 100yeard even an out of shape dude could cover it in less than 30 seconds at a run. So lets say a in shape guy is weighed down. Hell lets say it takes him a full minute to get to you but now, there is thousands also making that run at you. This delusional if you understand the battleground. No what happens is both sides cluster **** in the center so now, you long bow man are next to useless. But a guy with a weaker faster bow that can shoot straight and not up in the air can actually drop you real close even in armour.

Now a 50 lb bow can reach as far as the video but it probably will not be effective. Have a bunch of back up 80lb and your still good at that range. Yeah, archers only carried one bow to war or did not have different ones for different ranges or custom arrows for certain targets, etc. Then as now, same same. So it was a numbers game and England showed up with more archers. Lobbing arrows and dropping guys before they got to the center but eventually it all goes to center. Your heavy long bow is now useless for combat. You cant use it fast enough. Again, save the rare individual. You can forgot those massive 150+ bows found on that ship. No one is going to pull fast enough before he is put down by another. Better to use a lighter bow and stay more mobile. And I belive there would be guys like Lars on the fields. Just like those super long pull guys youll have super gifted up close guys. Most fall in the middle. Nothing special.

I can shoot 200 meters. Of course I cant see what I am shooting at but man, the arrow will end up there. That's shooting ? That's a question I am not capable of that.