Do you agree with the following statement?

[YouKnowWho]

"A five minute round in the ring or on the mats will often teach you more about yourself than a lifetime of solo forms or cooperative, non full-contact training.”

The way that I look at this is you have to

- "develop" your skill from partner drill.
- "test" your skill from sparring/wrestling.

If you have never trained "hip throw", you can wrestle for the rest of your life, you still won't be able to apply "hip throw" in wrestling.

Your thought?

[Pete]

yes absolutely!! i also believe you can't train one without the other

edit: what i mean is can't only train your form, also need to spar too!

[David Jamieson]

Yes and No. Direct experience is always the best teacher.
I wouldn't diminish the value of training in strength, dexterity, agility etc. These all aid in that direct experience and prepare you for it.

So, the statement is made not in the spirit of learning, but rather as a cheap shot at traditional martial arts. Therefore, it's just a cheap shot statement that could have been a learning motivator with the simple: "A five minute round in the ring or on the mats will often teach you a lot about yourself"

Because it will also teach you more than a lifetime of weightlifting, or swimming, or bag work or running etc. So, it's a crap statement overall, but with a good statement on the front end.

[Pete]

i don't think it was a cheap shot at TMA... maybe a cheap shot at "masters" who only practice form?!

where did you get the statement from youknowwho ?

[sanjuro_ronin]

"A five minute round in the ring or on the mats will often teach you more about yourself than a lifetime of solo forms or cooperative, non full-contact training.”

The way that I look at this is you have to

- "develop" your skill from partner drill.
- "test" your skill from sparring/wrestling.

If you have never trained "hip throw", you can wrestle for the rest of your life, you still won't be able to apply "hip throw" in wrestling.

Your thought?

Agree, 100%

[Yum Cha]

A point is there to be made, but 5 minutes vs a lifetime? Lets be real here.

Ever seen Kill Amrnad?

[mickey]

Greetings,

I would rather the person find out in ring than on the street. If he finds out on the street, it might be too late.

mickey

[sanjuro_ronin]

A point is there to be made, but 5 minutes vs a lifetime? Lets be real here.

Ever seen Kill Amrnad?

5 minutes in the ring with a trained fighter trying to take your head off IS a lifetime the first time you do it.

[-N-]

5 minutes in the ring with a trained fighter trying to take your head off IS a lifetime the first time you do it.

Before Brendan Lai came to the US, his teacher had him go to one last class.

It was just Wong Hon Fan and Brendan Lai for the entire evening.

Brendan Lai referred to that time as, "When one night with Sifu was harder than 8 years of training."

[sanjuro_ronin]

Before Brendan Lai came to the US, his teacher had him go to one last class.

It was just Wong Hon Fan and Brendan Lai for the entire evening.

Brendan Lai referred to that time as, "When one night with Sifu was more than 8 years of training."

I hear ya.
Before my SPM and HK sifu's left for Macao, they gave Us ( me and their 3 other students) one last weekend.
It was years of training in 2 days.
The bruises lasted for weeks but those lessons will last a lifetime.

[YouKnowWho]

where did you get the statement from youknowwho ?

May be we should just discuss the concept without referencing the person.

I believe in sparring/wrestling 15 rounds daily. Form my experience, in sparring/wrestling you just keep using whatever the moves that works for you. You can make those moves work better and better. If your opponent is weak, once in a while you will try some new moves. If it works you will try it some more. If it doesn't, you will stop trying. If your opponent is strong, you may not want to take the risk and try something new. This is the wrong attitude but we all like to keep a good winning record. I had a spar/wrestling partner who liked to use his left leg to hook the outside of my right leg. After 10 years, he still liked to use the same move on me. IMO, by using sparring/wrestling, it's very difficult to grow out of your original boundary.

Maybe this approach will work for art such as BJJ. Will partner drills be able to help developing arm bar or choke? Can someone comment on this?

[David Jamieson]

May be we should just discuss the concept without referencing the person.

I believe in sparring/wrestling 15 rounds daily. Form my experience, in sparring/wrestling you just keep using whatever the moves that works for you. You can make those moves work better and better. If your opponent is weak, once in a while you will try some new moves. If it works you will try it some more. If it doesn't, you will stop trying. If your opponent is strong, you may not want to take the risk and try something new. This is the wrong attitude but we all like to keep a good winning record. I had a spar/wrestling partner who liked to use his left leg to hook the outside of my right leg. After 10 years, he still liked to use the same move on me. IMO, by using sparring/wrestling, it's very difficult to grow.

Maybe this approach will work for art such as BJJ. Can someone comment on this?

Do you compete regularly?

I see value in the donation of the day to the art if you are actually using the art with regularity outside of simply teaching.

I don't agree getting your ass handed to you will teach you much other than you need to practice and even then, it could be just the guy who handed you your ass and you need to learn how to counter him.

I don't agree with it being "better" than solo training etc and see that as a cheap shot trying to chest puff. It's arrogant BS basically and presumes more than it should.

It is diminishing specific work study of TCMA. So, the statement invalidates itself with it's crappy attitude about other practices. I'd stick with the idea that stepping up and stepping into a conflict and testing your art in a safe environment will indeed teach you about how you are doing with your learning and it will teach you about yourself too. Will 5 minutes in a ring improve your skill? No. Anything could happen in there and it could run the gamut from no value to low value to high value.

[SavvySavage]

i don't think it was a cheap shot at TMA... maybe a cheap shot at "masters" who only practice form?!

where did you get the statement from youknowwho ?

The person who made the statement was Tim Cartmell, bjj blackbelt and internal martial art expert. Here is the interview.

http://blog.awma.com/tim-cartmell-tr...nal-directive/

[David Jamieson]

I still disagree and still regard the last half of it as arrogant and chest puffing.

[YouKnowWho]

In 1 of my longfist forms, there was a foot sweep that's done by the left leg. Since I had repeated that from so many times when I was young, even today, my left leg foot sweep is still better than my right leg foot sweep.