WSL on LSJC

[k gledhill]

Can anyone help with the acronyms please? Cheers.

ACWC
BPWT
BL
BS
DP
GL
IM
IMO
JPF
FWIW
LFJ
LGBTh
LLHS
LOL
LSJC
LTWT
MA
MYJ
PB
PBVT
PFJ
PM
POV
SNT
TCMA
UK
VT
WC
WCK
WSL
WSLPBVT
WSLPBVTK
WSLVT
WTF
YM

Lmfaorotg !

[rett]

WSL PB VT USA

Okay, Vermont USA. Got it. Cheers.

[k gledhill]

@ LFJ dude you left out double high tan and double low tan , sideways 45 deg tan and .... ; ) so many tans !

I am with graham all the way. We must be fools and been blinded by PB somehow not to see what everyone sees. How could he !! ; )

[Graham H]

Well he does raise some good points G................

He raises the kind of points I would have raised prior to meeting PB. I've told him that and it still doesn't seem to sink into his cotton wool head!

[LFJ]

@ LFJ dude you left out double high tan and double low tan , sideways 45 deg tan and .... ; ) so many tans !

I am with graham all the way. We must be fools and been blinded by PB somehow not to see what everyone sees. How could he !! ; )

It's fine you guys prefer PB's method to WSL's. Y'all're PBVT guys.

Graham being one of the biggest PB fanboys keeps acting like everyone is trying to understand his sifu's VT so he can feel good knowing "da realz" kung fu while the rest of us will never understand.

Actually this thread is just to show what WSL actually taught on certain major points Graham calls ineffective "bullsh!t" all the time while claiming to be a WSLVT practitioner (but of the pure and real WSLVT via PB).

[wingchunIan]

I'd almost stopped posting on this forum because it was the same boring crap over and over again. Glad I popped back in for this thread though, most entertaining forum thread I've read in ages

[LFJ]

He raises the kind of points I would have raised prior to meeting PB.

Like what?

The points I've raised here have been showing what WSL taught to his regular students.

You're telling me when you met PB he told you that was all bullsh!t and WSL routinely lied to every other student he had? So you believed PB and now have no questions.

[Frost]

I'd almost stopped posting on this forum because it was the same boring crap over and over again. Glad I popped back in for this thread though, most entertaining forum thread I've read in ages

LMAO its the way of the world, true believers always turn in on themselves once they have finished attacking outsiders, then it becomes a case of WHO is the real true believer with the REAL message

[k gledhill]

Okay, Vermont USA. Got it. Cheers.

Ving tsun but Vermont is in there too : )

[Buddha_Fist]

12 Pages of BS...

Wong Shun Leung went throughout his life through an evolution on how and what to teach. Like any smart person who reflects on the results of his work and improves upon it. I understand from a couple of his students, that it went from a mostly practical approach to a more conceptual POV towards the end of his life (mid 1990's).

Videos are snapshots in time of what he chose to show and of how he chose to work with particular people. Taking them as gospel truth of Wong Shun Leung's POV's, without having met him and without more intimate knowledge of his work throughout time, is nonsense.

[guy b.]

Like what?

The points I've raised here have been showing what WSL taught to his regular students.

You're telling me when you met PB he told you that was all bullsh!t and WSL routinely lied to every other student he had? So you believed PB and now have no questions.

Which students of WSL have told you this? You surely haven't trained with every student of WSL.

There are at least 2 plausible reason why whoever you trained with might have told you this which would be consistent with Graham's take on the issue.

[LFJ]

@guy.b

As I said, every member of the WSLSA agrees on what WSL taught. You'll have to show me one that doesn't.

How many plausible reasons do you have for WSL to have lied to all his students except PB?

[guy b.]

@guy.b

As I said, every member of the WSLSA agrees on what WSL taught.

How would you know that?

You are the one making the claim and you will need to name names if you want it to be plausible. Who has taught you this? PB students are quite open in terms of what they were taught (or not taught in this case)

[Graham H]

@guy.b

As I said, every member of the WSLSA agrees on what WSL taught. You'll have to show me one that doesn't.

How many plausible reasons do you have for WSL to have lied to all his students except PB?

Who said anything about lying to people? WTF are you on about?

[tc101]

TC101,

WC is developmental. The entire system is based on "developing" fighting attributes.

No no no its not. Wing chun is about developing a skill set you can use for fighting. Part of what goes into a skill are attributes but you are not developing attributes for attributes sake like trying to get stronger just to be stronger. You are trying to get better at using the wing chun skills and by practicing the skills you also develop the attributes that go along with the skil's performance. You can't develop the attribute of accuracy without shooting at the target!

It has a very specific set of drills to develop those attributes. When you fight, you just fight however you're going to fight. Period. Fighting doesn't develop skill. It only either justifies it or disqualifies it. Or more realistically, a little bit of both.

No no no I am sorry but you are off track again. The wing chun drills are for sharpeing your wing chun tools allowing you to practice the movemenat and actions and get better at physically performing them. It is the same with any martial art. Boxing drills do the same but with boxing techniques and skills.

The drills by themself will never make you be able to use the tools well in sparring or fighting because the dynamic of what is going on is different is sparring or fighting or to put it another way the drills do not represent fighting conditions. So you have to practice using your tools whether in boxing or in wing chun or in bjj in sparring to develop greater skill using them under fighting conditions.

Show me one example of a boxer, mma, or whomever say that they got better as a result of a fight. No, they only say 'now I know what I need to work on'. And they go back to training with drills, footwork, conditioning, etc.

They all get better by sparring, and if you actually talk to real boxers like I have and do all the time or real fighters they will tell you that actual fights or competitions do increase their skills and abilities.

The way training works is you have basically three areas. First is conditioning since your level of performance will be the level of your conditioning. Second is tool and skill sharpening where you work on learning and getting better at the movement or action of your martial art. Third is sparring where you practice fighting or to put it another way you spar. Fighting is more than just being able to perform the actions it takes place on a strategic, tactical and technical level and you need to learn how to deal with these. If you try to come up with them on the fly you will usually fail.

What we argue about on these forums, 9 times out of 10, is the best way to "train". Training concepts are not "arm chair ideas" and can be translated through descriptions with words. And while there are guys on here who have no fighting or sparring experience, a knowledge of training 'concepts' doesn't necessarily require that if you know what a particular drill develops.

The thing is you do not know what it is supposed to develop or if it really does that without seeing the result that is what makes it an arm chair thing. You think you know. Thinking you know is arm chair. Knowing because you are doing it is not arm chair. Your concepts for the most part are the ideas of people in arm chairs.

I can tell you how to train boxers because I can see their development as a fighter from day one and by see I mean with my own eyes through their performance in the ring. That way I know what is working or not working well.

It's just a forum. You need to relax a little bit with your rhetoric. It's just a bunch of amateur "coaches" trying to discuss methods. Of course people will think their way is best. And that can be for a myriad of reasons. It can be ego, lack of legitamate understanding, inability to translate to words, loss of context, a whole host of negative reasons. But there are some who do know what they're talking about and do have experience. And by consequence, because it's an online forum, their points on training methods will usually be lost amongst the sea of chaos.

You're fighting a losing battle simply because of the platform. So either participate and try to navigate all the noise or add to it. It's your choice.

I do not know but I do not have these problems on the boxing forums or the bjj forums. I think the difference is the ratio of arm chair guys to people really doing it. Share what you do, share your experience doing it, share what you learned from that experience. Wayfaring had a great post a while back about his experience trying to make his wing chun work against a boxer. That is a solid post. For every one of those you see many many guys telling us about how they think they know how to deal with boxers by referencing their concpets.