WSL on LSJC

[LFJ]

Yes because unlike most PB wasn't only present just for seminars.

So he changed the teaching methodology of WSL's to not include this stage of training. Doesn't make it wrong.

What do you mean correct elbow position? The elbow is not fixed. Only for training. Explain what you mean s'il vous plait

Behind and under the fist, perpendicular to the body and 'chiu-ying'.

Plucking guitar strings in a fight?

Or whatever.

[Graham H]

So he changed the teaching methodology of WSL's to not include this stage of training. Doesn't make it wrong.

Dude PB told me he teaches exactly what he was taught by WSL. That is confirmed by others that were also taught by WSL. He also says that WSL always said he teaches exactly what he was taught by Yip Man. I wasn't there so I don't know but I do accept that as the truth. Why would they both lie? They don't strike as being those sorts of people.

The reason I believe that PB's method differs from a lot of others is that WSL had the time to spend on him. He was WSL's assistant for a very long time and spent the first 18 months of Ving Tsun training everyday in his school. If two people share the same thinking and the hard work is put in the end results will be very different from what may be seen in other camps where that didn't take place.

[LFJ]

Dude PB told me he teaches exactly what he was taught by WSL.

Are you not listening to yourself in this thread?

You said PB doesn't teach what WSL was teaching in the video. Then you want to also say PB teaches exactly the way WSL taught.

You can't have it both ways. What's the problem if PB changed teaching methodology? You prefer his method and it works.

[Graham H]

Are you not listening to yourself in this thread?

You said PB doesn't teach what WSL was teaching in the video. Then you want to also say PB teaches exactly the way WSL taught.

You can't have it both ways. What's the problem if PB changed teaching methodology? You prefer his method and it works.

What? You just don't get it do you?

All we have been doing, regarding PB, is going around and around in circles for months. It's simple, you do not understand his way of thinking. You will never understand his way of thinking. If you did you would understand about the content of those videos, why WSL taught that stuff in seminars and why your idea of LSJC is not like mine.

There have been countless posts written by me, T_Ray, Kevin, and even Sean regarding PB and the rest of you are still none the wiser.

Just accept that until you meet the guy, have had an exchange with him verbally and physically and discussed his years being taught by WSL the best you have is guess work. If I was you I would give up. Let's agree to disagree and be done with it.

[LFJ]

I'm not trying to understand PB's thinking, just whether his teaching methodology/curriculum differs from WSL's as a cause for your disagreement with WSL's teaching, calling it a misconception. This thread has clearly answered the question. PB doesn't teach what WSL taught in that video and to numerous other students he had. That's fine though. Purity is not a virtue in fighting and PB's method obviously floats your boat.

[Graham H]

I'm not trying to understand PB's thinking, just whether his teaching methodology/curriculum differs from WSL's as a cause for your disagreement with WSL's teaching, calling it a misconception. This thread has clearly answered the question. PB doesn't teach what WSL taught in that video and to numerous other students he had. That's fine though. Purity is not a virtue in fighting and PB's method obviously floats your boat.

Yes and there is a reason for it but you have to understand his and WSL's thinking to understand why? I asked the same question myself and I when I heard the answer it was clear. Are you going to keep on with this?

[LFJ]

No. Question answered.

[k gledhill]

Jesus! Get over it dude.

LSJC used in this context is a development drill for beginners in chi sau to learn not to retract the hand before punching and start the process of not chasing or fighting the arms. During chi sau practice we are in contact and the idea of taking the arm away so that your training partner can train the correct punching behaviour is vital. Contact is removed and the punch is trained. It's a drill but the behaviour of the punch is improved through this drill.

Later on down the line this idea of LSJC progresses and like the rest of the system things are added so that the end result is a fully functioning Ving Tsun fighting system. The pivot, step and strategy are all added and all need LSJC inside.
One of the great things about LSJC is that is does teach you to navigate through all the mess whilst driving forward but its not only about impeding arms.

There are many drills and training methods within the system that improve and correct actions. they are not fighting methods. They are tools. If your Sifu has not seen the complete picture or missed certain things the tools become interpreted as something else. This is always the problem.

We learn later that LSJC is about the whole body behaviour but of course in the beginning when we are learning we have to get the arms correct. The structures built through hours of training allows us to use them correctly.

What you see in WSL videos is him explaining a very small part of LSJC. A few more months/years down the line you will see the rest.

In SLT we start to develop LSJC but where is the contact then? There is none so is not LSJC??

I don't need to have a "deeper" conversation with PB mate. I know what I'm on about and have seen the full process. It seems you have not.

When PB first asked me what I thought LSJC was I said it was loss of contact with the arms thrust forward using springy energy. He then proceeded to teach me a new idea. One that made perfect sense and things that I had never experienced before. Before then how could I know any different??????

Maybe you should spend less time writing and invest your time into going to see what PB does first hand before making assumptions based on video footage.

I shouldn't be saying this to you. You are in the WSLVT lineage. You should not be so blind! There is more information out there that you have not been exposed to!

Good explanation. I tried and ended up rereading the posts, yours sums it up. There are so many facets to our approach. Doing wu sao drills is an abstract idea, many see the wu but do they know what a wu goes through to be a " wu " ; )
Like the dummy being a workout station for us , so are partners. Like a good pad man to a boxer, we need a knowledgable working partner who knows how to drill elbow lines or feed our required abstract needs.

[Sean66]

Well said Kevin. Having a knowledgable partner is essential.

And, yes, you summed it up quite well there Graham.

But like you said, it's best to experience and have it explained "first hand".

Where are you located LFJ? Maybe there is one of Philipp's students dans le coin.

[Paddington]

I really don't buy into the assertion that these more developed ideas around the idea of LSJC, cannot not be explained well in written English. However, I am not naive and the continued avoidance to explain seems more, to me at least, a maintenance of livelihoods. I do agree that deeper understandings can be gained face to face but that is not contrary to a call for written explanations; it is like Waiting for Godot.

[k gledhill]

I really don't buy into the assertion that these more developed ideas around the idea of LSJC, cannot not be explained well in written English. However, I am not naive and the continued avoidance to explain seems more, to me at least, a maintenance of livelihoods. I do agree that deeper understandings can be gained face to face but that is not contrary to a call for written explanations; it is like Waiting for Godot.

I made several attempts but its confusing. Punching concepts also need to be used and shown in relation to other common errors the lsjc aims to rid us of.
There are simple llsjc drills present throughout the stages to prove and check each others accuracy during advanced training.

[sihing]

Now this is what this forum should be like all the time, good relevant info, and some history too, I didn't know PB was WSL assistant, and the LSJC explanations were great, and no name calling,, Wow..

James

[KPM]

Now this is what this forum should be like all the time, good relevant info, and some history too, I didn't know PB was WSL assistant, and the LSJC explanations were great, and no name calling,, Wow..

James

I agree on all accounts! I also didn't know that PB had been WSL's assistant.

[LFJ]

Where are you located LFJ? Maybe there is one of Philipp's students dans le coin.

Shanghai, but there are none in the whole of China, to my knowledge. I go to HK for good VT. The closest bet is Chan Kim Man, who is recommended by PB, being his old training partner.

[Graham H]

I agree on all accounts! I also didn't know that PB had been WSL's assistant.

There are lots of things people don't know about PB on this forum. The problem is that they make assumptions based on video footage which is 99% incorrect. As has been proven even the written word can come across as confusing and contradictory. A result of an abstract methodology to combat.

Unexperienced people may think they know what they are seeing but they do not. All they can do is base it on their own experience and from what they have been exposed to. I made the same mistake myself for quite a long time.

Now everything is clear. The hard part is getting the body to follow