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Thread: Long tassel sword

  1. #1
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    Longsword Tassle

    Hi, I usually just read posts here but I was wondering something so I just had to ask. What is the traditional use of the tassle on the longsword? Those two bobbly balls with long thin strings. It came up in class... I know the broadsword's flag is for wiping blood, but I couldn't think of the purpose of the longsword's tassle. Anyone?

  2. #2
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    As pretty decorations when the sword is hanged on the wall.

    The tassel is a purely decorative part of the sword. It was derived from langyards ( A loop that strapes to the wrist ) when swords were used on horsebacks.

    If you want to practice with your sword, remove it.
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  3. #3
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    The flag concept seems interesting, never heard that before. The tassel, I'm told is used to disguise the movements of the sword, to confuse the opponent. Personally, I think the tassels and flags on swords and sabers nowadays are geared more toward the performance aspect (kinda like the thicker ropes and added chain links on rope darts/meteor hammers.)

    Then again, it is easy to see someone seeing a flag swirling around and being all like "WTF?" before being sliced up and/or stabbed.
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  4. #4
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    It has function as a lanyard.
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  5. #5
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    a former Sifu of mine...

    told me that the tassle, in addition to being used as a weapon, was also to give the sword some balance when using it. Whether this is true or not, I cannot verify.

  6. #6
    the tassel does change the balance of the sword and the sword handles much differently with it than without it.
    what my teacher explained is that it is useful for practice in that if it becomes wrapped around your wrist it is an indication of to much arm movement being used.
    it does take some getting used to and having learned first without it it was pretty annoying to pacice with it on at first. now I think it has helped smooth out my motion .
    pm

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfx
    As pretty decorations when the sword is hanged on the wall.

    The tassel is a purely decorative part of the sword. It was derived from langyards ( A loop that strapes to the wrist ) when swords were used on horsebacks.

    If you want to practice with your sword, remove it.
    That is precisely what I was told.

    As with anything, if your skill is high enough it can be used as part of the weapon, but I noticed my teachers in China never used them, except once at the beginning of an instructional video, and that just to say what it was. It was no longer attached to the sword when the instructional part started.

  8. #8
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    cant comment ont he tassle but was interested int he flags for wiping blood. I watched one the of the 'shaoling boxing tree' broadsword video and the monk said that they were for confusing the opponent and they were a lot longer than now - is this not the case?

  9. #9
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    There was a long post on this a good while back.

    The lanyard idea is there.

    I know of a couple of movements with northern sword routines that do just that...you grab the tassel and then thrust the sword out and let go...then quickly pull it back to your hand with the tassel. But, not all methods have or acknowledge this technique.

    For training, the tassel can show you when your movements are smooth and correct. Bad movements, wobbly arcing, too much arm and not enough wrist, etc... and you can end up with your arm severely wrapped up in the tassel.

    A lot of people refuse to use the tassel because they get wrapped up in it. My teacher would not let you practice sword without the tassel. A northern purist and historian, my teacher would maintain that training - use one approach. Fighting, a different one but one built on the techniques learned in training. hence, train the smoothness and correct form with the tassel. Use it - probably without it unless you are using the sword with the 'emergency' technique I mentioned earlier.

    For competitions, you REALLY need to know what the rules say. For Modern Wushu, a tassel is REQUIRED for Jian as is a Flag for the Dao.

    For Traditional, it varies. What NOT to do is show up and try to tell the head judge to NOT apply the rule. It is very unfair to change the rules at the ring without getting ALL competitors buy in. Only the event coordinator and judge in chief should do that. Otherwise, you get into a discussion of "So, what rules do you NOT want me to apply...or is it just on YOUR students ..."

  10. #10
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    I was also told that the lanyard was useful if the handle was slippery with blood it was something to grab to better pull the sword out of an enemy. "Grab the lanyard and kick the body."

    Here is a link to a painting of a Bannerman with a lanyard through the handle of his sabre:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Manchuguard.jpg

  11. #11
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    THanks for all the replies.

    The first thing my sifu told us about longswords is that you can tell how good someone is by not getting wrapped in the tassle, and that more distinguished practitioners have longer tassles. We train with the tassle of at first, then apply it later after we have the basic movements down.

    I'm no sure what replies are more exact, but I'm convinced it had a function. Whichever replies are true, I agree with GLW... That it helps to show when your movements are smoth and correct.

  12. #12
    flags and tassles...... 101

    true
    Are to take the eye away from the balde, as someone said confuse
    To be used a laynard

    False
    to wipe the blood
    to use it to let go thrust then regrasp the handle in combat

    while it is true one can distinguish good swordsmen from the movement of the tassle it is not the purpose, only a gauge while praticing.

    also sometimes the color of the tassle determined its length and purpose
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  13. #13
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    I practice with a tassel sometimes just for the heck of it, to see what it does and how not to get tangled, and as mentioned above, most tournaments require it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chizica
    told me that the tassle, in addition to being used as a weapon, was also to give the sword some balance when using it. Whether this is true or not, I cannot verify.
    If you need to add a counter-weight on a string to balance your sword than it's not a very good sword. They were used as lanyards. Over time they got a bit more stylized... geared towards performance.
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  15. #15
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    Here's a few reasons why it can't be anything else other than decorative:

    Langyard:
    A langyard is a sturdy loop that goes through the handles. The modern tassle is no longer a loop, nor is it sturdy. Functionality wise, to use it as a langyard, it will need to be wrapped around the wrist and the loose end need to be tighed off or be held with the hand. However, when one actually need to use the sword, who has time to tie it off? If held by the hand, then it detracts from sword control, which == possible lose the fight.

    Distraction:
    It's as much a distraction for the wielder as it is for the opponent. It will constantly swing around and possiblely get tangled, distracting the wielder from the opponent.

    Performance Indicator:
    I don't think so. The tassle will only fly about nciely if the the sword gets spinned a lot, simple physics. Any sudden change in direction and speed will make the tassle go every which way, and tangle up the hand. It's not a good performance indicator for any non-flower use of the sword.

    Balancer:
    As mentioned, there are way better alternatives.

    Weapon:
    Why use the tassle as a weapon when the sword itself if sharper, has longer range and is easier to control? Also remember that putting something sharp in the tassle will not only (maybe) cut the opponent, it will cut up the wielder's own arm as well. In fact, it will most likely hurt the wielder more often than the opponent.


    But if you are skilled....:
    Why spend so much time on tassle usage when one should be spending time wielding the actual blade? It's like trying to practice hurting people using the straps on a rifile when one should be spending time shooting.



    The tassle only makes sense in performances, where it's mesmerising to watch with all the sword spins that they do. Very much like the dao's flag imo.

    For examples, look at the image provided earlier:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Manchuguard.jpg

    Notice there's no flag on the end of that liuye dao, it's just a langyard.
    However keep in mind that the dao mostly commonly associated with Chinese weapons is the niuwei dao, where the front of the blade is thicker and heavier.
    The liuye dao is the standard issued weapon for the imperial army, while niuye dao is more popular with peasants and rebels because it's a simpler weapon requiring less training and finess to wield.
    It's possible that the flag is more commonly used by peasants, and later such crude form is popularized simply because it's more available.
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