Power vs. Speed

[-N-]

That's one of my heavy bag drills as well. I may not put all my power on my 1st punch (cross), but I do try to put all my power on my 2nd punch (jab - not sure jab is a proper term for it).

I meant hit the heavy bag with the body using coiling sinking explosive force.

If the core body power is there, then the other techniques will have power.

Plus you train closing in all the way which benefits both striking and throwing.

Also good for conditioning.

[bawang]

everybody look fast and snappy and crisp doing the forms until they hit a bag. then they slow down.

[mooyingmantis]

Here is a great mix of speed and power from my kung fu older brother James Rogers. James mixes Bajiquan with his Mantis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgu8mpn2-4c

[YouKnowWho]

everybody look fast and snappy and crisp doing the forms until they hit a bag. then they slow down.

There is a big difference between striking into the thin air vs. striking on a solid object. This is why for those who work on heavy bags, they don't talk much about power and speed.

When you were

- young, if you don't search for extreme power and extreme speed, your were never young.
- older, if you still search for extreme power and extreme speed, your haven't grown up yet.

When you get older, you will truly understand that a woman who is

- pretty,
- rich,
- cook well, and
- good in bed,

just doesn't exist.

[PalmStriker]

In mantis, power is relative. The two dominant striking areas are the eyes and the groin, Neither require much power, but both require great speed. Mantis is primarily a point striking art. We are not just trying to hit "something", we are aiming at specific points (8 hit, 8 no hit). So precision is important.

I emphasize gaining power by increasing speed.

If you practice in a school that emphasizes punching "to the head" or "to the body", rather than specific points on both, power comes much more into play. Lack of precision requires more power to get the same disabling effect.

Have to agree.

[PalmStriker]

Speed to set up and injure, power to finish.
If you strike with accuracy, you need less power.

I also beiieve that SPM like Pak Mei, doesn't chamber the fist, they strike from in front of the body. Hands are closer, less telegraph, greater perception of speed.

Agree with this.

[PalmStriker]

There is a big difference between striking into the thin air vs. striking on a solid object. This is why for those who work on heavy bags, they don't talk much about power and speed.

When you were

- young, if you don't search for extreme power and extreme speed, your were never young.
- older, if you still search for extreme power and extreme speed, your haven't grown up yet.

When you get older, you will truly understand that a woman who is

- pretty,
- rich,
- cook well, and
- good in bed,

just doesn't exist.

Well, she might not be able to cook.

[Yum Cha]

When you get older, you will truly understand that a woman who is

- pretty,
- rich,
- cook well, and
- good in bed,

just doesn't exist.

Right, so you need one of each.

[Jimbo]

There is a big difference between striking into the thin air vs. striking on a solid object. This is why for those who work on heavy bags, they don't talk much about power and speed.

You need both. Though it's more important to be able to strike solid targets, hitting air is good to practice recovery from a missed strike. Different muscles are used hitting air vs hitting pads vs hitting a heavy bag.

**To add:
In addition, IMO, quickness is more important than raw speed, especially as you get older. I don't care how good you are, when you're 60 or 70, you are not going to be as fast as an athletically fast 20 year old. But quickness is the ability to perceive/act/react decisively, now...with as little wasted motion as possible. There is a subtle difference between quickness and just being fast, though quickness obviously still requires speed.

[YouKnowWho]

At 0.43, we can see that Bruce Lee expended his left shoulder forward 1st before he twisted his body and punch out his right hand. His jab (compress) may be slow, but his cross (release) can be fast and powerful. Sometime we just pay attention on his cross (release) and say that speed and power can be obtained at the same time. We have ignored that his power and speed came from his left jab (compression) which require time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyrd2L0zt3w

[LaRoux]

I don't remember that we have discussed this subject before or not. It's a very important subject anyway.

This is the general MA trade off issue. The praying mantis is very fast but the power is not all there.

Praying Mantis Kung Fu - Brendan Lai Meihua Quan - YouTube

The Baji is very powerful but the speed is not all there.

Baji quan--Adam Hsu - YouTube

The reason is simple. If you compress to the maximum and then release, you will generate the maximum amount of power. Unfortunately in combat, you don't have that luxury to obtain a full "compression".

If you look at Chenyu's and CXW's power generation. It takes them about 1 second to generate power for each of their strikes. That 1 second is just too slow in normal combat.

Chen taiji quan fajin by Chenyu 陈�太�拳 - YouTube

https://myspace.com/431083890/video/...hniques/330713

Even the XingYi Liu He system, the power generation is still to slow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcqQ9KhMYFY

By comparing the most famous power generation systems in TCMA, the Baji, Chen Taiji, and XingYi Liu He, none of them can match with the speed generated in the praying mantis system.

This is why in the

- intermediate training stage, you want to use your body to push/pull your limbs. This way you can generate the maximum amount of power.
- advance training stage, you want to use your body to chase your limbs. This way you can generate the maximum amount of speed.

Here is a simple test. When a mosquito flies in front of you and you want to smash that mosquito, will you use your body to push your hand, or will you let your body to chase your hand? Which part of your body will move first? This is a good example that you want to achieve the maximum speed, but you have to sacrifice some of your power.

Since all TCMA styles will involve with power generation and speed generation issue, what's your opinion on this?

None of those things have anything to do with generating power against and external object like an opponent.

[LaRoux]

At 0.43, we can see that Bruce Lee expended his left shoulder forward 1st before he twisted his body and punch out his right hand. His jab (compress) may be slow, but his cross (release) can be fast and powerful. Sometime we just pay attention on his cross (release) and say that speed and power can be obtained at the same time. We have ignored that his power and speed came from his left jab (compression) which require time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyrd2L0zt3w

Last time I checked, that was a movie. You can't use someone acting in a movie to analyze using power/speed in a realistic manner.

[WC1277]

Last time I checked, that was a movie. You can't use someone acting in a movie to analyze using power/speed in a realistic manner.

Regardless of it being a movie, he has a point. Good WC power generation works the same way. An equal rotation of forces generates significantly more power by creating essentially a solid object in motion.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

My answer is "Who Cares"

If you have to rely on speed and strength, you did something really wrong.

Back when I was doing Shuai Jiao, the saying was "position is stronger than strength, and faster than speed"

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

When you get older, you will truly understand that a woman who is

- pretty,
- rich,
- cook well, and
- good in bed,

just doesn't exist.

I had one who was very beautiful, not rich, but a fantastic cook and simply unbelievable in bed! I mean like WOW!!!

she was bonkers bat S#!t Crazy with a demonic temper though...