WSL in 1984

[BPWT]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAji...layer_embedded

A clip that was new to me.

Students first, then WSL from 2:00 onwards.

[GlennR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAji...layer_embedded

A clip that was new to me.

Students first, then WSL from 2:00 onwards.

Oh dear, where do we start.......... let me finish dinner and ill comment

[GlennR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAji...layer_embedded

A clip that was new to me.

Students first, then WSL from 2:00 onwards.

So......

Tall guy in white t-shirt dominates short guy in the 1st 2 minutes through use of better technique but, importantly, longer range due to height and length of arms.

2 minute mark, WSL steps in, is similar height to 1st guy that was dominated by the same whit t-shirt guy, and uses the bridge (ie arm contact) to overcome the range advantage of the whit t-shirt guy

Thoughts PBWSLVT guys??

[BPWT]

2 minute mark, WSL steps in, is similar height to 1st guy that was dominated by the same whit t-shirt guy, and uses the bridge (ie arm contact) to overcome the range advantage of the whit t-shirt guy

Same thoughts as me. WSL negates the other guy's longer reach by keeping the distance and not disengaging - that is to say WSL attacks and maintains contact/stick with his non-attacking arm, and therefore maintains much more control than that seen between the two students working with each other.

Nice of David Peterson to be so generous with his archive of WSL video.

[Paddington]

A great clip. I do see a lot of similarity in the way PB rolls, from the limited clips I have seen on youtube, so I am also interested to hear what PB students think about this clip.

[LFJ]

Short guy was not managing distance well, staying in a range where he could not reach his partner but his partner could reach him; no LSJC. WSL stepped in to show him a few entry tactics to get in on the taller guy and negate his reach advantage. Maintaining contact in order to control has nothing to do with it. This kind of contact is happening because they are doing a chi-sau drill. The important points being shown are how he uses his whole body to pressure forward (LSJC) and cuts the angles to move in and change the odds in his favor. Don't focus too much on the in-between. That won't be there in a fight.

[BPWT]

Short guy was not managing distance well, staying in a range where he could not reach his partner but his partner could reach him; no LSJC. WSL stepped in to show him a few entry tactics to get in on the taller guy and negate his reach advantage. Maintaining contact in order to control has nothing to do with it. This kind of contact is happening because they are doing a chi-sau drill. The important points being shown are how he uses his whole body to pressure forward (LSJC) and cuts the angles to move in and change the odds in his favor. Don't focus too much on the in-between. That won't be there in a fight.

Certainly I agree on the importance of using the whole body to pressure forward. But I agree less with the idea that maintaining contact doesn't aid in the control WSL exhibits... in this short clip it shows how it shuts down one half of potential countering options.

[LFJ]

From the perspective of what's actually going to happen in a fight, that has nothing to do with it.

[BPWT]

From the perspective of what's actually going to happen in a fight, that has nothing to do with it.

Maybe...

[k gledhill]

Chi sao clip. Seen it before. Please tell me you don't think that's the sparring.

[k gledhill]

Certainly I agree on the importance of using the whole body to pressure forward. But I agree less with the idea that maintaining contact doesn't aid in the control WSL exhibits... in this short clip it shows how it shuts down one half of potential countering options.

It's a drilling method. An abstract drill with mutual benefits.

[BPWT]

It's a drilling method. An abstract drill with mutual benefits.

Yes. But seriously, whenever there's a clip presented of WSL Chi Sau (or from anyone else for that matter) do we need to say that it's a training method? We all know that this is not sparring and not fighting. And as such, as a training method, it will surely have mutual benefits for each person taking part.

No need for this disclaimer, IMO.

But in a drill like this, each person has the chance to initiate an attack and to work a counter-attack, no? It did say 'Gwoh Sau' at the start of the clip.

Either way, you can clearly see that WSL finds a line to attack/enter on and is often, at that moment, using his other hand to restrict possible counters.

For sure, in a fight there will not be this prolonged contact - indeed, you wouldn't be issuing a single attack like this - but I think the clip shows well the idea that maintaining contact (even if actually utilized only for a brief period) has an important function.

I liked also how WSL used his footwork in the final moments of the footage to step directly into the other guy's stance. Common in quite a few lineages, but I think I remember reading somewhere on this forum that this was not something WSLVT did (but I could be wrong on this point).

Anyways, like I said - it was a new clip for me, and it was interesting to watch.

[k gledhill]

Yes. But seriously, whenever there's a clip presented of WSL Chi Sau (or from anyone else for that matter) do we need to say that it's a training method? We all know that this is not sparring and not fighting. And as such, as a training method, it will surely have mutual benefits for each person taking part.

No need for this disclaimer, IMO.

But in a drill like this, each person has the chance to initiate an attack and to work a counter-attack, no? It did say 'Gwoh Sau' at the start of the clip.

Either way, you can clearly see that WSL finds a line to attack/enter on and is often, at that moment, using his other hand to restrict possible counters.

For sure, in a fight there will not be this prolonged contact - indeed, you wouldn't be issuing a single attack like this - but I think the clip shows well the idea that maintaining contact (even if actually utilized only for a brief period) has an important function.

I liked also how WSL used his footwork in the final moments of the footage to step directly into the other guy's stance. Common in quite a few lineages, but I think I remember reading somewhere on this forum that this was not something WSLVT did (but I could be wrong on this point).

Anyways, like I said - it was a new clip for me, and it was interesting to watch.

Abstract ideas at work to develop many things.

[GlennR]

Short guy was not managing distance well, staying in a range where he could not reach his partner but his partner could reach him; no LSJC

Agreed, though the other guys skill level looked a bit better IMO

.

WSL stepped in to show him a few entry tactics to get in on the taller guy and negate his reach advantage.

And maintained contact everytime...... wether he meant to or not.

Maintaining contact in order to control has nothing to do with it. This kind of contact is happening because they are doing a chi-sau drill.

Then why do it?

The important points being shown are how he uses his whole body to pressure forward (LSJC) and cuts the angles to move in and change the odds in his favor.

He also uses hos whole body to create pressure at the bridge.... a lot

Don't focus too much on the in-between. That won't be there in a fight.

So we ignore those pesky arms do we??

[Paddington]

Abstract ideas at work to develop many things.

No offense Kev but you are starting to sound like the oracle at Delphi!