would your wing chun work if..

[LaRoux]

Bamboo Section Training has positions nearly identical to guard, mount, side mount, knee on stomach, spider guard etc. The just have funny names like "Lazy Tiger Suns It's Belly" and "Kneeling Horse Presents a Hoof". It has transitions from position to position, locks, chokes and strangles done from an upright position and on the ground. .

Then maybe you could explain which WC principles are applicable to the different ground positions and which are not applicable to others.

[YouKnowWho]

The Five Ways of Neutralization

1. Dissolve Down
2. Dissolve Up
3. Dissolve by Turning
4. Side Push
5. Follow the Limb

The Five Methods of Attack

1. Jeet - Intercept
2. Fan Sau - Trap
3. Da - Strike
4. Kum Na - Seize and Control
5. Seut Gau - Throw

Which principle/principles do you think that you will use to solve this problem?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nWjc...ature=youtu.be

[LaRoux]

Actually, the move that Bas is using is more in line with what I'm talking about. I think that realistically it would be better employed from a grab, simply because most people never throw just one punch, and the chances of wrapping that arm are higher from a grab than a speeding punch.

Seems the WC you are talking about doesn't really have much emphasis on clinch work after all. Otherwise it would be readily apparent how to get the wrap from punching.

[LaRoux]

I have years of experience in grappling as well and personally think that many of the movements in WC are verbatim to grappling techniques,

I will try, though just to be clear, I am no expert.

So which is it? Years of grappling experience or not much expertise?

[LaRoux]

The Five Ways of Neutralization

1. Dissolve Down
2. Dissolve Up
3. Dissolve by Turning
4. Side Push
5. Follow the Limb

These are the main concepts of sticking hands in my method of WC. These are basic principles that can be applied in numerous situations that involve grabbing and wrapping up and are relative to groundwork. A whole book could be written on this subject so I'm not going to elaborate further. Those that understand these concepts will know what I am referring to.

Here are some of the Boxing Formula:

As my opponent comes, I receive him; as he leaves, I escort him; upon loss of contact, I press forward.

Use stillness to overcome movement; use softness to overcome hardness; use rest to overcome fatigue; strength is aware, it follows and changes with feeling.

These two formulas IMO are fundamental to how grappling is approached and utilized in my system, for others I can't comment.

Techniques like Seung Lan Sau, Da Bong, Seung Chum Kiu, Gai Jau etc. directly translate into locks and chokes.

These are the basic methods from which all systems of Kung Fu are built upon:

The Five Methods of Attack

1. Jeet - Intercept
2. Fan Sau - Trap
3. Da - Strike
4. Kum Na - Seize and Control
5. Seut Gau - Throw

Some simply emphasize some more than others.

How would these things change depending on the position you are in? How would you use them when mounted vs. mounted on someone or when in someone's guard vs. when someone is in your guard or when in top side control vs. bottom side control?

[YouKnowWho]

As for what your asking I believe you are referring to anti-grappling. So in the case of the other guy, he should of used his other hand to defend. There is an old adage 'Box a grappler, Grapple a boxer'. Unfortunately no one has yet figured out the golden formula for that. The best suggestion I have is wrap up his arm, which would be dissolve by turning and follow the limb as applied with intercept and trap. Then bite his ear off and hang on for dear life, because Bas is going to maul you:-)

Now we are getting into some interest discussion.

I don't believe there is a such thing as "anti-grappling". I do believe "grappling against grappling".

I agree that "Box a grappler, Grapple a boxer" is good strategy. It only works if a boxer can keep a grappler outside of the clinching range, and a grappler can get into clinching without been hit. The moment that clinching is created, the boxer will be in his dis-advantage. The example that I gave was "clinching has been created".

[anerlich]

Now I can honestly say that what I learned from the Yip Man line was not all that different from the Yuan family line, so, if this isn't something that you learned, either you teacher did not know it or you hadn't gotten that far in your training.

False dichotomy and poor attempt at a put down. You disappoint me.

Option three, your opinion of the quality of what you learned and its applicability against skilled grapplers differs from mine.

How did it work in grappling tournaments? Say again? Or MMA perhaps? Any competitive situation?

Individuals like Andreas Hoffman, though studying BJJ, have been able to seamlessly blend their WC with grappling. This would not be possible if the two were not compatible.

Opinions vary regarding the seamlessness. In some area the principles of WC and grappling are compatible, in others definitely not. IMHO, humility being a rare commodity here

I don't believe there is a such thing as "anti-grappling".

If there is such a thing, the people best at it are other grapplers. Familiarity with what they're up against and all that.

[lance]

There's definitely something wrong with his keyboard.

LFJ , so what ' s wrong with my keyboard ? I was just replying to guys topic post . Unless you people are the other way around ? If it is then we ' ll have a problem ?

[hulkout]

If Wing Chun doesn't work for you, then it's YOUR Wing Chun that isn't working. Not the art as a whole. Eveyone's art is a bit different based on body type, personality, etc. But as long as you adhere to the basic principles, it's all good. I also practice Bagua and Xingyi and incorporate those things into my Wing Chun. And of course people will say "That's not Wing Chun". I say fine. I am hereby naming my martial art Hulkout Gung Fu if that will make everyone happy. But whatever you want to call it, it's my Wing Chun and it works. I practice regularly against boxers and Muay Thai fighters. I'm not perfect. I do get hit but I get them too. It does work and if I get hit, the last thing I'll do is blame the art. It's me. How egotistical do you have to be to blame the art and when it's you who's fighting? So you are the perfect physical specimen? Seriously, give me a break! How many good boxers are there? How many bad boxers are there? Do you ever hear any of them blaming the art?

[anerlich]

but honestly how can you comment on the quality of the WC I learned when you've never seen it.

You commented that my WC must have been deficient if I didn't agree it contained good grappling, though you'd never seen it. guess you need to answer that for yourself.

[LaRoux]

It's a loaded question with no correct answer, as the opponent changes you have to follow, where that takes you depends on the opponent, environment and their skill level.

It's not a loaded question and it has clear answers that you would understand if you really had much of a grappling background as you claimed you did at first.