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Thread: The most controversial TCMA system

  1. #46
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    Wushu tuojie le.....

    In the picture, look at Mr. Wang, bottom left.

    This is the step immediately before the crossed step the others are displaying. The crossed step has just reacted to a movement of the opponent, it is dynamic and not held.

    Mr. Wang is in the standard seven star guard, the only change being he is across the line of attack, so his body is completely side on. Body across the line of attack, CeShenFa, Is common to most styles.

    It is difficult to understand because it relies on defence. The opponent wants something from you, you need nothing from him. It is not so understandable from the point of view of the Leitai.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
    you're crazy if you think circle walking is about fighting tactics.
    Circle walking is an excellent combat strategy. A boxer will keep moving toward your side door so your powerful cross will be jammed by your own leading arm.

    It's even used more in grappling. If you can use circle walking to drag your opponent with you, you can take advantage on his weight shifting (either fight against you or yield into you). When you do that, you will need to shift your body weight on your back leg.

    You don't need to keep moving in circle. All you need is just that "1 step". If you can move your back foot to be on the same line of your opponent's feet (this will require you to move you back foot first), When you move in your front foot to "shoot" at your opponent's leading leg, no matter how your opponent may move, his leading leg will always be under your attacking range. If your opponent is moving with you, you may need more than that "1 step".

    In the following clip, you can see that your feet and your opponent's feet all line up in a straight line during shooting. Of course if you can move behind your opponent, that will be even better. But in reality, it's very difficult to achieve that.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bGE_...ature=youtu.be

    To be able to line up your

    - back foot,
    - front foot (during shooting),
    - opponent's leading foot,
    - opponent's back foot,

    is important. But the Bagua circle walking just violate this basic "combat" principle.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 09-13-2013 at 01:03 PM.
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Wushu tuojie le.....

    In the picture,...
    Which picture?
    http://johnswang.com

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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Which picture?
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Mr. Wang, bottom left.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Mr. Wang, bottom left.
    That was the only picture that no "cross legs" happened. The moment that you have your leg crossed, it's just like to allow your opponent to run behind you. If he shoots at your leading leg at that moment, your leading leg will have no place to "escape".

    http://imageshack.us/a/img802/6077/d1bq.png
    http://johnswang.com

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  6. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post

    You just don't want to give your opponent a chance to do so. The problem is after you have developed your "cross legs" bad habit, it's difficult to remove it.
    Cheng Bagua is not at all my primary art, but I do cross train it, and while I'm still a beginner, my friend I train with has been pretty clear that his sifu taught him that the legs/feet should never cross. But I'm sure there are plenty of varying opinions on that.
    Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die...

  7. #52
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    John

    Please don't misquote me. You took what I said out of context.

    I admitted at the beginning of my post that I have no experience in bagua and know little about it. I wrote that I had read other people had said walking the circle in combat is crazy.

    in your own post you start by saying it's good combat strategy, then finish by saying it violates a basic combat principle. I understand what you're saying, but you see how easily it could be taken out of context.

    The '1 step' to the side gate is something I've noticed in the Gao straight line forms that I've seen - and if you re-read my post, I quite explicitly say these make a lot more sense to my untrained eye.

    I don't know if you selectively edited my post to add some fire to the conversation or not, but I'm not here to start arguments with anyone.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    That was the only picture that no "cross legs" happened. The moment that you have your leg crossed, it's just like to allow your opponent to run behind you. If he shoots at your leading leg at that moment, your leading leg will have no place to "escape".

    http://imageshack.us/a/img802/6077/d1bq.png
    Right,

    But the crossed stance is freeze frame of a movement. The stance Mr. Wang is in can pause for a time.

    Stepping behind a coiled posture is risky, all the spinning movements from this position are fast and powerful and can strike at any level.

    This step would usually happen at the edge of his range, not during TieShenKao (leaning against body). If he shoots from a range while you are in the middle of the step, then yeah, it is weak to this, but then you have mis-stepped. It would step as a reaction to his movement, not step across him while he is coiled and waiting to pounce.

    It is a way to maintain a completely side on posture while moving laterally. This is a valuable idea and while I do not train BaGua, other northern styles have some similar ideas to this.

  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSpring View Post
    Cheng Bagua is not at all my primary art, but I do cross train it, and while I'm still a beginner, my friend I train with has been pretty clear that his sifu taught him that the legs/feet should never cross. But I'm sure there are plenty of varying opinions on that.
    By walking the circle you inevitably cross your legs. You can't walk unless you cross your legs.

  10. #55
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0BdwbA6h9I

    Is the bagua circle walking really used in fights like this?

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavvySavage View Post
    By walking the circle you inevitably cross your legs. You can't walk unless you cross your legs.
    nope

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Bccq3ZVg#t=979

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  12. #57
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    Crispy with mashed potatoes?

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfman5F View Post
    Crispy with mashed potatoes?
    before ark wong, I am.

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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
    John

    Please don't misquote me. ... in your own post you start by saying it's good combat strategy, then finish by saying it violates a basic combat principle. I understand what you're saying, but you see how easily it could be taken out of context.
    Sorry, I should quote your statement as:

    "other people say you're crazy if you think circle walking is about fighting tactics."

    It was my mistake by not including "other people say".

    The difference is you can "cross your legs " when you are behind of your opponent and not while you are still in front of him. In order to avoid that, you have to move your back foot first.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 09-14-2013 at 11:46 AM.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Sorry, I should quote your statement as:

    "other people say you're crazy if you think circle walking is about fighting tactics."

    It was my mistake.

    The difference is you can "cross your legs " when you are behind of your opponent and not while you are still in front of him. In order to avoid that, you have to move your back foot first.
    circling the opponent is common training in northern kung fu. circle walking is for looking good only and is useless for fighting. it comes from Taoist walking meditation.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IomX...tailpage#t=178
    Last edited by bawang; 09-14-2013 at 11:51 AM.

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