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Thread: Training Contact WC with Bare Knuckles -- Nothing to do with WC vs. Systema!

  1. #1
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    Training Contact WC with Bare Knuckles -- Nothing to do with WC vs. Systema!

    This video has nothing to do with the title "Wing Tchun vs. ...". It's about training with contact using bare knuckles vs. wraps and gloves. In the past, people have told me that this guy is nuts. He probably is! But I enjoy watching him. Any thoughts?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx-DT2ZNA7Y
    Last edited by Grumblegeezer; 09-02-2013 at 10:59 AM.
    "No contaban con mi astucia!" --el Chapulin Colorado

    http://www.vingtsunaz.com/
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    lots of wristy slapping punches with no penetration or elbow power. total sh1t . Then again maybe its just too "abstract" for me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shads View Post
    lots of wristy slapping punches with no penetration or elbow power. total sh1t . Then again maybe its just too "abstract" for me
    You're probably right

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumblegeezer View Post
    This video has nothing to do with the title "Wing Tchun vs. ...". It's about training with contact using bare knuckles vs. wraps and gloves. In the past, people have told me that this guy is nuts. He probably is! But I enjoy watching him. Any thoughts?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx-DT2ZNA7Y
    Only in WCK can you read a description of video from someone where you read the words "training with contact using bare knuckles vs. wraps and gloves", and then when you watch the video, nobody is actually "training with contact using bare knuckles".

    Instead you see a guy running his mouth and compliantly punching various of his students in the chest.

    And then that you find that it goes on for 15 minutes.

    And you realize that you can't get that 15 minutes of your life back. Or however shorter amount of time it took to fast forward through the video to look for "training".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    Only in WCK can you read a description of video from someone where you read the words "training with contact using bare knuckles vs. wraps and gloves", and then when you watch the video, nobody is actually "training with contact using bare knuckles".

    Instead you see a guy running his mouth and compliantly punching various of his students in the chest.

    And then that you find that it goes on for 15 minutes.

    And you realize that you can't get that 15 minutes of your life back. Or however shorter amount of time it took to fast forward through the video to look for "training".
    Sorry, ...my bad. I should have been clearer in my description so that you wouldn't waste a piece of your life on this forum. Now why does that sound silly? Say, ever watch one of Hendrik's videos... Whoops, I'm going off topic again.

    Where was I? ...Oh yeah, I should have said "Doing drills with fairly hard, but controlled bare-hand contact to selected, safe targets." This is definitely not about full contact. But the same guy has posted stuff with gloves and more contact. Take a look:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I4eaxvw5m4
    "No contaban con mi astucia!" --el Chapulin Colorado

    http://www.vingtsunaz.com/
    www.nationalvt.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumblegeezer View Post
    But the same guy has posted stuff with gloves and more contact. Take a look:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I4eaxvw5m4
    Looks like a couple angry kids. That was an awesome takedown @:48 though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Looks like a couple angry kids. That was an awesome takedown @:48 though.
    I'm sure the super secret sparring clips from the wslpbvt guys would be so much better

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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    I'm sure the super secret sparring clips from the wslpbvt guys would be so much better
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDqSRN_ZDWk

  9. #9
    Nice clip, in my opinion. Some problems with range (punching when not quite in range), but I'm just as guilty of that when the gloves and headgear are on (the desire to hit sometimes overrules the fact we're not quite in range to do so).
    No mocking, tongue-in-cheek signature here... move on.

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    In all honesty, i prefer the 1st one

  11. #11
    Looks ok but don't like the tendency to tense up and hold the head back and chin up which is a) dangerous and b) messing up the ability to punch. Also looks a bit suspect in that the same guy "wins" every time and the losers just give up and curl into foetal position every time he gets through their arms.

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    Pretty sure these guys are 2 or 3 generations from PB, but at least someone put something out there. The guy in the black at the beginning appears to be the instructor, hence he's the one "winning" all the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    In all honesty, i prefer the 1st one
    In all honesty? Alright... Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Pretty sure these guys are 2 or 3 generations from PB, but at least someone put something out there. The guy in the black at the beginning appears to be the instructor, hence he's the one "winning" all the time.
    Yes. Kudos for them for putting it out there! I'll note that the big guy in white seemed to do much better when he was boxing rather than doing Wing Chun. He got in several good jabs.

    Not to be critical, because this is a good clip... but I did want to make one comment given some past discussions here. It seemed to me that when the instructor was having problems with "big white" in boxing mode, it was because he was not taking care of the "obstruction" that the boxer's guard represented. Too often he was not really neutralizing the opponent's arms when they got in close, leaving them free to continue to hit. In other words, he did not "bridge" well.

    As far as the clip that Grumblegeezer posted....looked like lots of "flailing" and not a lot of technique. I thought the idea with WCK was to hit without getting hit (at least as much as possible), not to exchange blows like boxing.

    The problem I see with the whole idea of "gearing up" for sparring....once you are in the gear, people tend to revert to a boxing mentality and a lot of the carefully trained WCK techniques go out the window. I'm guilty as well. I think it is better to include the gear early in drills and such so that the student doesn't see it as "special". Hard contact in gear should be a part of the entire curriculum, not just in sparring. Then the student doesn't get the subconscious impression that they are in "boxing mode" because they have on gear. The "Applied Wing Chun" guys do this....Duncan Leung, Gordon Lo, Allan Lee..... Allan Orr's guys do this. They are less likely to end up looking like "sloppy kickboxing" when they spar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T_Ray View Post
    That's not wslpbvt sparring... Not even close.
    http://www.vingtsun-langenberg.de/vingtsun.html

    It says here the instructor is under a direct student of PB, so second generation PBVT, with 15 years' training experience...

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