Lan Sao--does it violate the WC law of economy of motion?

[Graham H]

Oh. So only PB lineage people know the "real" Wing Chun? Is that it? Still pushing the angle that PB was the only one that learned what WSL really meant to teach? How about you explain to us all how what I wrote was "WAY off the mark"!!!!

Why don't you ask the opinions of the increasing masses of people that are ditching their old lineages for a better way of thinking. No need to take my word for it.

I wouldn't say way off the mark in comparison to what is taught in many Wing Chun schools. In fact I have seen and read a lot worse. Compared to my ideas on Chum Kiu etc etc yes you are way off the mark. Considering I used to have the same ideas as you there is a good reason why I had to change my whole thinking on Ving Tsun.

Is there an echo on this forum?

[Sihing73]

Considering I used to have the same ideas as you there is a good reason why I had to change my whole thinking on Ving Tsun.

I am going to go out on a limb and here and postulate that the reason you had to change everything you ever learned is because........................ready?

You Suck

Honestly Graham, I think it is great that you found what you were looking for and are so devoted to PB, who seems to be an excellent practitioner. But your constant chest thumping and ego do get a bit tiresome. Since you guys are the only ones who really do Wing Chun, then why don't you enter some fighting competitions and show us how it is done. I mean with your superior knowledge beating all comers should be a walk in the park. Heck, just show a video of you matching with someone from another Wing Chun lineage where you own them and I may be impressed.

[KPM]

Why don't you ask the opinions of the increasing masses of people that are ditching their old lineages for a better way of thinking. No need to take my word for it.

That's about the answer I expected. You're willing to pop into a thread and tear someone else down, but not willing to explain why you disagree or provide an alternate explanation. That's not discussing. That's trolling.

Considering I used to have the same ideas as you there is a good reason why I had to change my whole thinking on Ving Tsun.

Then please share! Again, how was what I wrote "way off the mark"???

Is there an echo on this forum?

There certainly is! That echo is you saying the same thing over and over. How about providing evidence rather than just short quips?

When I popped into the forum last night to check on conversations you had been here just before me. You had posted on no fewer than four threads I think. And each post was a very short negative comment without elaboration or explanation. That's trolling to stir up trouble, pure and simple.

[Graham H]

Ha! lmao

The only things that stick out in my mind when I read your posts is the fact you both know where the bold text and font size buttons are.

[Sihing73]

Ha! lmao

The only things that stick out in my mind when I read your posts is the fact you both know where the bold text and font size buttons are.

Exactly to my point. Your powers of retention are lacking if that is ALL you get out of others posts. Perhaps this applies to your wing chun as well

Listen, you may be a great guy in person, but your posts here on the this forum kind of make you look like a, what's the word I am looking for? Perhaps our UK or Australian members can tell me if I use this correctly; Graham comes across to me as a "wanker" would that be the correct usage??

[guy b.]

Exactly to my point. Your powers of retention are lacking if that is ALL you get out of others posts. Perhaps this applies to your wing chun as well

Listen, you may be a great guy in person, but your posts here on the this forum kind of make you look like a, what's the word I am looking for? Perhaps our UK or Australian members can tell me if I use this correctly; Graham comes across to me as a "wanker" would that be the correct usage??

This place would be zzzz without the disagreements caused by the PB students.

[Sihing73]

This place would be zzzz without the disagreements caused by the PB students.

Sure, but that does not change my opinion.

Like I have said before, no one lineage or approach has the "secret" ingredient or the one and only real, true Wing Chun. Every lineage has someone who can make that approach work for them.

Wing Chun is, or can be, a highly personal journey offering something for each person.
Those who espouse their way as the only way either are, IMHO, deluded or have separated themselves from reality. If there was a single "one way" which was superior than those doing that "one way" would be so superior that they could silence all others. However, that is not the case.

I think it is great to be proud of ones lineage and certainly one should respect and honor their Sifu. However, when one disparages all who disagree with their approach then one shows themselves to be somewhat shortsighted as well as a fool.

[Vajramusti]

This place would be zzzz without the disagreements caused by the PB students.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

[k gledhill]

I agree with graham, if you look at ck and the sequential form as application youre off the mark, if you base your application on misguided arm pressure fed theories and to bong or lan because of this , you're off the mark.

An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mahatma Gandhi

[k gledhill]

Sure, but that does not change my opinion.

Like I have said before, no one lineage or approach has the "secret" ingredient or the one and only real, true Wing Chun. Every lineage has someone who can make that approach work for them.

Wing Chun is, or can be, a highly personal journey offering something for each person.
Those who espouse their way as the only way either are, IMHO, deluded or have separated themselves from reality. If there was a single "one way" which was superior than those doing that "one way" would be so superior that they could silence all others. However, that is not the case.

I think it is great to be proud of ones lineage and certainly one should respect and honor their Sifu. However, when one disparages all who disagree with their approach then one shows themselves to be somewhat shortsighted as well as a fool.

Separation from reality ? Subjectivity is an artists approach, vt is a skill that can be tested and proven. Iow I can show you physically that your ideas are right or wrong vt.
The issue is that many students have learned second , third hand and not been given some information. Without this guidance we can only make subjective applications. Ten guys can give ten versions of slt thinking, just because one guy says you're all wrong doesn't mean he is in dream land.

[Graham H]

Like I have said before, no one lineage or approach has the "secret" ingredient or the one and only real, true Wing Chun. Every lineage has someone who can make that approach work for them.

No secrets just misinformed misinterpreted systems that make no sense.

Some people can make any sh1t work for them but we are not all that lucky. As we cannot have physical exchanges on this forum the discussions can only be about theories and many of the theories relate to these misinterpreted ideas.

Until you have been exposed to another way of thinking and have had this physical exchange then there is no way of knowing. People don't like what they don't understand especially if it undermines their authority.

We continue...................

[Wayfaring]

I agree with graham, if you look at ck and the sequential form as application youre off the mark

Of course many would refer to all "forms" as non-essential. Lately I've been looking at them as more of a choreographed dance whose purpose is to preserve certain concepts, techniques, and footwork. They catalog a system and a unique approach to it.

With WCK being unique in that there are 3 universal open hand forms performed across most lineages that are the same 3 forms, they can also be utilized to catalog different lineage concepts and approaches. Most kung fu styles each have their own forms.

And yes, throughout history in almost every martial art style there are contingencies that try to seek deeper meaning in forms beyond what they are. Including delusional departures like seeking for the hidden grappling techniques in SNT/CK/BT as an example.

Forms have a pretty simple and directly understood place in learning. But not beyond that.

But anyways don't let my reflections interrupt the muppet show going on here.

[KPM]

I agree with graham, if you look at ck and the sequential form as application youre off the mark, if you base your application on misguided arm pressure fed theories and to bong or lan because of this , you're off the mark.

An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mahatma Gandhi

That's not an explanation of how what I posted doesn't work, or of what your alternative explanation for the same movements may be. So let's hear it. I'm still waiting. How was what I wrote "way off the mark"???

[Wayfaring]

Until you have been exposed to another way of thinking and have had this physical exchange then there is no way of knowing. People don't like what they don't understand especially if it undermines their authority.

And just because you switched from a cr@ppier WCK to PBVT doesn't mean that you're going to instantly defeat all opponents in a physical exchange either.

It sounds to me like someone is going to have to thump you for you to listen to them.

[Sihing73]

Separation from reality ? Subjectivity is an artists approach, vt is a skill that can be tested and proven. Iow I can show you physically that your ideas are right or wrong vt.
The issue is that many students have learned second , third hand and not been given some information. Without this guidance we can only make subjective applications. Ten guys can give ten versions of slt thinking, just because one guy says you're all wrong doesn't mean he is in dream land.

Kev,

The reality is that Wing Chun is a highly personal art and will be dependent on both the practitioners physical as well as mental attributes.

Based on what you are saying, it seems that you feel that "with the proper guidance" everyone would end up at the same place. Am I correct in believing this is how you feel?

I again state that if your way is the way then you should be able to dominate everyone else who does Wing Chun. Have you found this to be the case?

Also, because one guy or one group says they are right it does not mean they are. Nor does it mean they are not in dream land.